3x USA Memory Champion John Graham on Building Mental Strength and Crushing Anxiety

0:01 Welcome to The Coaching Equation, brought to you by Empire Partners and hosted by Ryan Lang and Brooke Bishop. Our mission is to help you build a profitable and impactful coaching business by cutting through the noise and all the expert advice to deliver tried and true, actionable insights that you can deploy in your business today. Each week, we bring on expert guests, unveil cutting-edge tactics and strategies, and share the secrets and stories that we've gathered from working with the most successful coaching companies on earth. Welcome to episode eight of the Coaching Equation podcast.

0:42 I'm your host, Ryan Lang, CEO and co-founder of Empire Partners. And today I've got a very special guest. His name is John Graham. John is a three-time USA memory champion. He's a grand master of memory, an entrepreneur, a mentor to high performers, including a world record holder. He's performed insane mental feats on television shows all over the world, including Superbrain in China, with over 400 million viewers. And in this episode, we're going to dive into his transformational journey. From cubicle to grand master of memory, where he mastered incredible feats like memorizing a deck of cards in less than two minutes and overcoming incredibly significant odds to achieve his dreams.

1:34 But this is more than just about memory. John... overcame crippling anxiety by using unconventional methods to release suppressed emotions and release the control conditioning of his mind. And in this episode, we're going to discuss the importance of measurability in personal growth, the power of tapping into your emotional core. how to turn seemingly insurmountable challenges into paths of new opportunity and harmony. Let's dig in with three-time USA Memory Champion, John Graham. This is Episode 8 of the Coaching Equation Podcast.

2:18 Welcome back to the Coaching Equation Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Lang, and Brooke Bishop not with us today. He is actually in jail in Tijuana, Mexico, unable to make the episode. Apparently, they don't allow Zoom or cell phones in Mexican jail at the moment. So, Brooke, not with us today. But... I am joined by a very special guest, longtime friend and client and colleague. John Graham is with us today. John, good to have you, man. Excited. Yeah. And at least I look like Brooke, too. So I'm a doppelganger. I'm representing him well. The bald, the tall, bald, bearded white dude. You do have that going on, man. That's a good point. You'd be a good stunt double for Brooke on.

2:59 I dressed as him for like a lookalike or a... Lookalike contest. I dressed like Brooke and sent him the picture. So, yeah. I didn't know that. I love it. You even got like, like he even wears, you know, t-shirts to kind of look like the one that you have on. Like you got it nailed, buddy. Yeah. Got it down. I love this. Well, man, I'm so excited to dig in with you today. And if you're tuning in, John is an amazing, amazing coach. And we're going to get into that in a little bit. But he is also a three time USA memory champion. which is such a unique superpower to have. And obviously something that he's cultivated over time. But I'm sure some people are kind of wondering, John, like what exactly does it mean to be a three time USA memory champion?

3:43 So give us a little context there, man. What does it mean? Yeah, I get asked this a lot. It's like a showstopping announcement. Three time US memory champion. Like what the heck does that mean? Yeah. And people assume I must have like a photographic memory. I'm like a genius, a savant, which, you know, I'm not. Absolutely not. And that kind of blows people's minds. We all have this assumption that there's geniuses and, you know, people are gifted these things. And like you said, it was cultivated. I learned memory techniques from a book literally 10 years ago. So I was 27 years old. I had graduated high school, college with all of this knowledge too, by the way. So I wish I would have known that stuff back then, but yeah, I read a book called moonwalking with Einstein, the art and science of remembering everything was just, it was a book that grabbed my soul.

4:28 I just, I remember reading about it. I remember grabbing at Barnes and Noble, reading the first chapter and just like blown away that ordinary people could memorize like shuffle decks of cards in order and like thousands of digits of pie. And like just all by learning visualization, imagination, connection techniques. Yeah. And so my first thought was, I got to try it because this is like too good to be true. And learn to memorize a deck of cards in a week. Like I practiced for a week and then it took me six minutes when I actually attempted it. And I was like, this works. And that was sort of the beginning of the whole journey. You said something just now that really struck me, which is it grabbed my soul.

5:09 Was it just... The concept of being able to really build your memory like a muscle and use it that way? Was it the way that the book was laid out? What was I mean, that's really strong language, man. What what was it that grabbed your soul about that book? I was working a cubicle job in Denver. that I didn't like. I read about that book, like from an article I was scrolling, I wasn't working, bookmarked the page. Like a month later, I was magnetically drawn to it again. It was just so many times I was drawn to this book. Like it was like, you know, the nudges are really strong. And I picked up the book and just, it's a magical cover. I don't know, you look at it. Maybe people don't have the same feeling, but it's one of those things that just...

5:49 The spirit world just said, you need to read this. Take me on a journey. And it was just the story was fascinating. Just it's about a person who didn't believe in this stuff and trained himself and learn these techniques, which are incredible. Like you think memory memory is kind of a boring idea. People think like, oh, I got to study it over and over and over. But if you learn techniques, you can actually shorten the time because it's accessing your creative side. It's actually a lot of fun to memorize things, which blows people away. So the whole thing was just a magical flip for me. I love that you just made that distinction because I think that is probably a really common misperception that crafting and cultivating a stronger and better and more capable brain and memory is amazing.

6:32 I mean, on the outside looking in, it's just kind of like, oh, I can memorize stuff and I can regurgitate it. But you're saying it accesses creativity. Tell me more about that. Yeah, the main technique is using your imagination, converting the words on a page or the concept into an image in your mind or a story, making words. a boring definition of a word and the definition into a like a linked story, a connection that just kind of like pops or makes it wild or crazy or exaggerated. And it just makes it sticky, right? Because our memory is very good at emotion, visuals, spaces. So why not utilize those concepts and ideas into what you're learning to make it stick longer and to know where it's stored in your mind?

7:17 Obviously, this is something that was insanely impactful for you. Say again, what age were you when you read the book? I was 27. So this was 10 years ago. And I think we all have moments in our lives. Some of us can really clearly define them. Others, maybe not. But many of us have very defined moments in our lives where something really grabs us, whether it's a book or a mentor or an experience that we have. So tell me what life was like before this happened. Lay that out for me. I just like that cubicle job I was sharing. It was the first salary job I ever had. I was working at a bankruptcy office in Denver and I thought it was the most money I'd ever made in my life.

7:57 It was $36,000 a year. I was like, Ooh, I made it, you know? And I just, I did not enjoy it after a couple of years. I was just burning out, not enjoying it and looking for more. I was around the same time. I started listening to like Tony Robbins, Tim Ferriss, I'm, Esther Hicks, all these like what we consider self-help. And I had this spark of like, I want to do something with my life. I want to be somebody. I want to help people. I want to like reach the top of something. And so I was at that stage in my life where I just didn't enjoy, like, it was like the midlife crisis. Like you graduate high school, you graduate college, you get a job, you've made it. You know, I had a girlfriend back home. We were going strong for many years and this wasn't it. Like, and it had nothing to do with, like, I just wanted more.

8:40 And so that was the, I guess that was the divine intervention. Like, here's the book. And let alone that summer. So I read the book. A couple months later, my wife and I sold everything we owned and we backpacked around the world. So it was a huge turning point in my life. It was the first time I competed at the World Championships of Memory. So it was like the world flipped on its head because I made a decision that this was not my path. I did not want to work in a cubicle anymore. Yeah. Before you got to that moment, do you always been acutely aware that you wanted more than or was it something that where you had kind of like I can say, you know, I was kind of shown a path. I definitely didn't take it, but I know a lot of people in life kind of get shown a path and it's like, hey, John, go do this.

9:22 And when you do, everything's going to be great. Was it like that? Or how are things kind of leading up to the moment where you kind of figured out you wanted more? Did you always kind of realize that? I mean, in high school, I made a lot of films and I was known for filmmaking. I won filmmaking awards. I was creative and I just enjoyed that. Yeah. did an internship in Santa Monica and Morgan Freeman's production company. So I knew I was, I knew I had the abilities to do something big. And I think looking back like this question, just the answer that comes to me is I didn't have like a guiding value or a guidepost of what I wanted to make my life. I was kind of, I wouldn't say a victim of life, but I would just kind of like, Okay, let's see what happens.

10:05 And when you let's see what happens in life, you just kind of get swept away and into what normal people do. And no offense, but like, if you have a guiding principle of what you want your life to look like, then everything changes. And so I had moments in my life where, no, I want to do this. I don't want to go the conventional route. And when you go the route you want, you know, the universe opens these doors and gives you these nudges. Yes, I think it was Zig Ziglar that encouraged us to be a meaningful specific instead of a wondering generality. Right. Right. And I love that. It's so powerful, man. And that idea of the guiding value. And we talk about this, Brooke and I talk about this all the time in that, you know, it's just too easy to literally find yourself out on the proverbial sea of life.

10:52 Right. just getting kind of blown about by the winds with no course charted and no bearings of where you are or a way to get there. What was it for you when was this sort of the wake up call that said, you know, OK, like, I feel like if I just decided on what that guiding light was that I kind of, you know, if I developed that standard for myself that that things could change, was the book the wake up call or had you started to had that door started to open up a little bit before that? I mean, it exploded open when I made the decision to start a business. So around that whole time, the span of two years, like 2012 to 2014, I decided to start trying to build business, to make money, travel the world, read this memory book.

11:36 Like the memory book, to be honest, Ryan, was like background, just like, let's do this for fun. I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I wanted to travel the world. I thought I was going to be a travel blogger. But no, the memory stuff was creeping in. I was really, really enjoying it and really ascending, really improving myself. It was very measurable. Yeah. So I could easily see how quick I was getting, how much better I was getting against myself because I was just competing against myself and enjoying it. Yeah. And so I think that measurability could see how good I was. And I was like, I just need to take this further because I could see other people in this field who were encouraging me and coaching me. And I was catching them quick. Like within a span of a couple of years, I was beating former world champions like easy on weekends, like in competitions.

12:21 And I was like, something's here. Yeah. I want to expand on that in a second. Before I do, though, this concept of measurability, I think, is so important. What do you say to somebody? And we talk about this a lot in the context of sales and business. And basically that like, look, if we can't assess objectively where we are, we're really kind of screwed. And there are a lot of people listening to this right now through no fault of their own who. have maybe had a tendency to kind of stick their head in the sand, sometimes knowingly, just not really wanting to, you know, in fear of like what they might see from a measurability standpoint. Some people not knowingly, just maybe never having been taught that.

13:02 What's been the value of actually having that ability to assess and measure in your personal growth and, you know, in business and life, etc. ? Yeah, if we don't have clarity, we can go off track and spiral really quickly, right? As humans, like within an afternoon, you can spiral and think you're losing it. I'm wasted all these years or whatever story that comes to mind, like your ego will just pull you down rapidly. So if I'm training in memory, for example, and I just have a horrible training afternoon, I feel like I've lost it. Like this is pointless. This is so frustrating. And my mind spirals. I can easily see the real raw data of it. Like, okay.

13:43 Am I really losing it or did I just have a bad day? And I can objectively look at my scores and see a trend and say, you know what? You're actually improving over the last four months. Every score, you're better than four months ago. But you're so caught up in this moment that your mind is just creating a story and you're spiraling in an emotion and just like getting lost. And I think if I didn't have that measurability, who knows if I would have. you know, given up. Cause if you don't know how far you've come and you judging it based on yourself, like just competing against yourself, if you don't know that, then you have no reason to keep going. But if you can see the full picture and get out of the story of your mind, get back on track much quicker. Yes. So much. Yes to that, man.

14:24 I think that that's really what ends up sending us in the wrong direction. And in most areas of our lives and business and relationships is the story, right? We get caught up in the story. And what I just heard you say was the value is in being able to just reflect agnostically and just find the truth. Where are the ways that I'm winning? Where are the areas that I could improve? And one of the things that I talk about significantly, which I can tell you have a really good handle on, which makes me so happy, is that when we can do that in the absence of judgment, it's a game changer. You know, because whether we're getting too excited about the things that we're doing well or whether we're just beating the shit out of ourselves for the things that we're having a hard time with, it's that judgment that ends up really impacting things when it's literally black and white, like, you know, numbers on a page.

15:15 There's no emotion attached to it. And we can see clearly. So when you decided to kind of take this in a competition, because John, a lot of people read books like somebody today is reading a book on fitness. They're not about to go jump out and do a, you know, a bodybuilding competition. I mean, somebody probably is. But what was it to you that made you go? Yeah, I think I want to compete at this. The book Moonwalking with Einstein talks about becoming a grandmaster of memory and what the scores were to make that happen. So you had to memorize. You had to go to a competition, memorize. a deck of cards in under two minutes, memorize a thousand digits, random digits in an hour, and then you had to memorize 10 decks of cards in one hour.

15:55 Those are three different events, which sounds insane, But I started practicing the techniques and learning I could memorize a deck of cards in six minutes on my first attempt. And I'm like, okay, I'm doing the math here. I can do this, right? And then I get a cool certificate and then I can say I'm a grand master of memory. That was my motivation. I didn't think I'd be here 10 years later still like three time champion. That certificate behind me, if you're watching the video is a grand master of memory. I didn't get it the first go around, by the way. I completely bombed, but that was my standard. I thought like, I just did the math. Six minutes, one deck of cards. I can do this. I can get better and faster to pull this off in a competition. Why don't you just mail it in after you bombed the first time?

16:37 Yeah. Great question, man. I almost walked out of that competition so many times. My heart was racing out of my chest. It was so uncomfortable. You're just sitting there in your own head for a couple hours on a couple of the events. The reason I kept going was I met people all over the world at that competition, people from Germany, other U.S. citizens, Mongolians, who were like helping me. They were like, no, here's what you did wrong. Here's what you need to improve upon. You completely missed this part. They were really easy tweaks. Like I was I had a really poor review strategy, which review is the bread and butter. Like you have to have a good review pattern if you're, you know, seeing the information two, three times to really. Yep. Sink it in. And I wasn't doing that. And it's such an easy fix that I thought, okay, I will keep going.

17:21 I'm going to compete at the U S competition in a few months and just see how I do. And that the carrot of the goal. So I, I went from trying to be a, come a grandmaster at the world championships to now the U S competition. I just want to make the top eight and make the final qualifying round. Like, so I had a goal, it was tangible, it was measurable. And I just, it kept me going. to have something like that I could look at and calculate because I'm like, I'm a numbers guy. I'm an analytical guy, but I had something tangible that I could work towards. Had you been a pretty competitive guy growing up or is that something that you feel like you kind of cultivated over time? I was really competitive. Absolutely. I'd always done like team sports. Yeah. Nothing against team sports, but I was on my own here.

18:03 Like it was. Yeah. And I could control a lot more than like in a team sport because I was on a lot of crappy teams. Yeah. And that's OK. Like I learned and I enjoyed it. But to be on my own, have more control on that is what lit me up. Some people are better on their own. Some people are better in team sports. But I like that aspect of this is me. I can do it. Yeah. I love that, man. And what I also love, you know, you've got a recognition of the fact that you operate really well on your own from that standpoint, from a performance standpoint. But you also highlighted the fact that when, you know, after that first one that tanked, you had those people that were there. you know, a community of people that were kind of pouring into you a little bit and sharing with you the ways that you could get better and improve.

18:48 And there's a contrast to that, because I think that there are a lot of people listening to this that would probably think that it has to be one way or the other. I either have... have to go lock myself in a vacuum and I can only be on my own kind of banging away on my craft, or I can go be this super, you know, community mastermind, you know, centric type of person and learn and level up that way. And from what I'm hearing from your story, it really is a bit of both, you know, in your case. Yeah. And I love that. And the key thing that changed it all for me was, yes, I wanted to be on my own. Yes, I can measure it on my own. But I realized at that point that I needed an extra guidance beyond this book.

19:28 Because very quickly, people are like, that book is good, but there's more to this. And I wanted to be one of the best in the world at one point. And when I made that decision, I realized I couldn't do it on my own anymore. There's 10 different disciplines in memory. at the world championship. There's 10 different events, like words, memorization, there's cards, there's numbers, there's names and faces, different disciplines. So I realized I'm going to figure out who the best in the world is at each discipline on its own. Like not the best overall person. Like who's the best at cards? Why? Who's the best at numbers? Who's the best at words? And I literally befriended all of them.

20:09 And I reached out and just had conversations with them because I was pretty good at that point. But they spilled in and shared their secrets because they knew it took hard work. It wasn't just going to be overnight. But I implemented what they were doing differently to become the best I could be at each discipline to be the best overall so that I could really dominate. at these competitions. And that's what changes. I'm not doing this on my own. I am training on my own, but I'm using the techniques and the mentorship, the guidance of the best in the world at what they do. You might want to listen back to that. I think this is so key, John. You know, you are like a legitimate champion at something, you know, not just like number eight in your playbook, number one in your heart.

20:52 You know, you're a legitimate champion at something. And to hear you say that the book is good, but there's more to this and the recognition that you were never going to go as far as you could possibly go without getting the guidance and the mentorship from the best in the world at what you wanted to do is huge, man. And I'm sure you do as well. That is one of the differentiators that I see in people that are the best in the world at what they do. And the highest achievers in the world is that they recognize, you know, I'm only going to go so far on my own. And I love the willingness to have reached a level of mastery at something, a level, and to then be humble enough to go, man, you know what?

21:34 Yeah, but, you know, somebody else has got more here and I want to go get it. I love that. I want to kind of shift gears in a second here. But before I do, obviously, as business owners and entrepreneurs and, you know, people that do these crazy things that most people will never do. One of the things that I'm always interested in is are the relationships that we have and how those work when, you know, we decide to go do crazy things. So the girlfriend when you read the book is this who is now your wife? Yep. This is my wife now. And tell me her name again. Nikki. Nikki. So when you go read this book and also obviously other things are kind of changing for you in the background.

22:14 And how does this work out when you go to her one day and go, honey, I'm out of the cube and we're backpacking around the world? I mean, was she just totally on board or was she like, uh... Well, I, yeah, I had been reading and deciding in my own mind for a few months that this is what I wanted. You know, like I read the four hour work week and that was a big inspiration for it. Yeah. So I, you know, we go on our walks every night and I tell her that, you know, I'm very nervous, like to tell her this, but I was so convicted. She laughs about it now, but she's like, when you said that I was completely swept off my feet, like it came out of left field. I wasn't prepared for that, but she felt something in my energy that. Hmm. It wasn't that I was going to do it no matter what, but like this was it.

22:57 I was convicted. And she felt that I mean. And over time, she just came to the same conclusion, you know, that we are young and this is not how we're going to live our whole lives. The working in cubicles and jobs, we want to experience the world, experience our lives, have a little bit of magic before we retire and not wait till that moment. So, yeah, she was all in. But at first it was quite a shock. Yeah. How much does it mean to you individually that you have had a partner in this life who's willing to really allow you to engage in, you know, what some people would say are crazy pursuits and do things that are so outside the box and out of the norm? How much has that meant to you? Yeah.

23:37 I have to remind myself this a lot because I take it for granted. My whole life, I've been blessed with parents who just backed me with all of my decisions. Right. They never boxed me into a corner. I need to do this, whatever. They just follow me. And then I start dating a girl who's the same way. Yeah, just always been in that energy of people supporting me and my genius. And I support people, too. So it's just without it, you know, who knows where I would be. Right. Because like every she doesn't, you know, get on me with business decisions or memory decisions or travel decisions. It's like I tell her I'm going to go to this country and compete. Good luck. Have fun. You know, we'll watch the girls. We'll take care of things like it's always been like that. So it makes it super easy.

24:18 Yes. Yes. I love that, man. And yeah, you've got two beautiful girls and another one on the way. So awesome. And gosh, I can identify with that so much, John. I mean, you know, my wife is the same way and God love her. You know, she's followed me all through the difficulty and same thing. You know, it's just like, okay, honey. You know, whatever we need to do. And there's a certain level, you know, one of the interesting things that I find with my wife, and I don't know if you do with yours as well, but there's a certain level of peace and trust. While they may not understand in the moment, and it doesn't mean that internally they're not somersaulting in their stomach, you know, in the moment that you tell them you're going to go do something crazy.

24:59 But there's a certain level of peace and trust that comes along with that. And whether it's a husband or a wife, one of the things that I think can be most powerful, and I think obviously, you know, we can learn from this as well and be able to be responsive to our partners this way as well, is that. In that moment, when they could react differently, they find a way to anchor in to that trust and that peace that everything is going to be okay. And basically just say the words, the magic words that we kind of need to hear in that moment in order to go forth and do the thing. Because it is awfully hard to do the kinds of things that we do in business and in entrepreneurship and in seeking out championship levels of competition.

25:45 Yeah. It's really hard to do that when you're thinking about what's going on back home or that you feel like you're letting somebody down or that somebody is making you feel guilty. It's incredibly freeing. And I believe that I'm with you. I'm not sure where I would be either if I didn't have a partner like that as well. Yeah. The trust comes from the obviously getting to know each other and intimacy there. But at some point, I think she realized pretty quickly that I was not an average person. Yeah. And if she's going to stay with me and we're going to stay together and develop that she's going to have to allow me to be me. Because it's not negotiable who I am and what I want to be. And the same with her. And I think we both trust in that we are going to be who we are and we're not going to just contract into society and contract into the way we should be.

26:32 And I think that's what allows her to have that trust in me. It's like, OK, this is life. We're going to go on a ride. Let's go on a ride. It's exciting that way, too. Let's go do it. Yeah, I love it. So I want to switch gears here. You know, one of the things that I hear a lot from people when they're talking about doing things like getting into a competition or and I used to hear this a lot, you know, growing up an athlete, getting into competition or even in the business world or in school, getting up and doing public speaking or addressing people at a shareholders meeting or, you know, taking a really important call. The words panic and anxiety I hear from a lot of people surrounding those kinds of activities.

27:14 And you've got a really unique vantage point on both of those words and their root cause and all of those things. Yeah. First of all, I want to ask you, because I know this is a big part of your expertise. What was the story that kind of led you to wanting to explore that? Was it competition? Was there something else behind it? I was forced to because I had chronic anxiety and I was dealing with. At one point in my life, daily, multiple panic attacks, just debilitating stuff. So it came out of necessity. But it was the most beautiful thing. At the time, it's the worst thing in the world, the darkest moment of my life. But going through that suffering, you hit a wall.

27:56 You hit the bottom almost. Maybe you do hit the bottom. And when you hit bottom, there is no other direction. There is zero other direction you can go. You're backed up against the wall. So you have to make a switch and go the other way. And because I was resistant so much in my mind and my ego and my emotions, I hit that wall. I was forced one day to wake up and realize this ain't working. I have to go this way. And I don't know what this way means yet, but it ain't this way. Is this way? It's leading me to that wall. So, yeah. I didn't do it by choice. I did it through necessity and my own suffering of this problem and just spending years and years in anxiety where it was affecting my performance and memory.

28:37 I was dealing with all this stuff too while I was training for national championships, world champions. I had a panic attack in one of the world championships. Like the first time. So yeah, it was, I had to find a way out of this. Was this something that started when you were really young or was there a moment that you can identify that kind of flipped a switch or what? When I was 13, I changed schools, but I also went through a chest surgery because I was born with like a chest bowl, like a little collapsed sternum. So I fixed it because I was so in my head, I was so insecure about it. Like there was nothing wrong with me. I didn't need the surgery. But I wanted sympathy. I wanted like this gone. I was so insecure about it that I got the surgery.

29:18 And I think that stirred up a lot of because here I am in eighth grade, new school, new kids. I can't carry more than five pounds of books around. I have to leave class early because I'm fragile, like I'm healing from this thing. It was just completely, I brought out all the fears of me. Like I remember walking to Mr. Bailey's woodshop class every morning. And if it was snowing outside, I could look out the window. If it was snowing outside, I literally thought my mom was like probably going to die in a car accident on the way to work. Like I was dealing with that much like irrational fear. Wow. Yeah. So I was like 13, but I had no idea that was anxiety. I was just thought it was kind of a normal thing. Yeah. Yeah.

29:58 So this starts around 13 and you carry this forward into your life. When was that moment that you hit that wall where you had the choice where you're either going to sink further down into this garbage or you're going to do something else? Well, that was actually last winter, like a little over a year ago was the dark night of the soul. I was having multiple panic attacks. Like I thought I was going to die because if you've ever had a panic attack, you're You have this sheer pulse of adrenaline go through you and you feel like something's very, very wrong. Like physiologically, you feel so stressed and you have this looming sense like something in my body is wrong or I'm going to drop dead.

30:40 I'm going to faint because you feel all these physiological, psychological effects. And then you the panic part of it is when you go in your head and you have spiral and all these, OK, I'm having a heart attack. No, it's a stroke. No, what's wrong with me? So I was having multiple of those a day. And just couldn't deal with it anymore. Like I was escaping to my room. I couldn't stand the thought of being around my daughters while I was going through this. It just was a miserable way to live. Like always thinking I'm going to die. Always thinking something's wrong. I'm going to have a heart attack, a stroke. Even though all the tests came back negative. Doctors couldn't find anything wrong with me. I was still having these intense things going on within me. What did you try to fix this up to that point?

31:22 Yeah. We'll give you Xanax. But if you ever had a panic attack, like Xanax takes like 30 minutes to settle in. And by the time you take it, like your panic attacks almost over or over. So that was pointless. I mean, from that perspective, blood pressure medication, they tried therapy, cognitive therapy, all the things that are like mentally focused. That was the big breakthrough for me was, you know, we call this mental health, but the root is emotion. It's emotional problem. And when I realized that, like I had been suffering for this for years. So it took years for me to finally understand, like when I hit that wall, what the real root was.

32:03 And it just everything clicked for me when I was reading, when I was following, what my intuition was telling me that this therapy ain't working. This stuff ain't working. It's deeper. What is the real root? The real root is suppressed emotion. Yeah. The root of chronic anxiety, panic attacks is suppressed emotion. There's conditioning of the mind that holds it in. People go to the mind to solve the mind. Like the conditioning is what's like holding it down. Okay. But if we can get through the conditioning and go to the emotion and feel the emotion as it surfaces... it will start releasing. Meaning these trapped emotions that we've stored in our bodies our whole lives, basically every single moment of our lives that was uncomfortable that we couldn't handle, that we pushed away is trapped inside of us.

32:50 And so over years, we just stack on so much emotion in our bodies. I mean, I believe, and this might be controversial, but things like we know stress can cause ulcers and things like that. I believe stress causes cancer. I believe is suppressed resentment and anger for decades, right? That people don't want to touch and resolve like something. And so I believe most of these issues are deep, deep emotions that we've stored our whole lives. So good, man. And I think this is something that I'm sure if you're listening to this right now, and these are things that you go through and you haven't heard this before, listen carefully. Yeah.

33:30 When you realized this, John, or you came to this realization, what were some of the things that you and you don't have to, you know, divulge the whole thing here, but what are some of the things today that you use as tools to effectively make sure that, you know, these things aren't overtaking your life on a daily basis like they were? Yeah. So I can say once this stuff releases, it's gone for good, like specific emotions. Maybe not like all of your anger is released in one, but like these moments get released. So I went crazy. And I once I figured out that basically everything that was bothering me, I don't like the word triggered because people will be like, oh, I'm not triggered by anything.

34:13 Oh, OK. But like the things that bother me are indicators that something is inside of me being poked that wants out. Yeah. Anytime you feel frustration, anger, sadness, fear, it's coming up to the surface to be released. But my whole life I was like, no. No, no. That's what all these addictions are. Alcohol pushes it down. Pornography pushes it down. Addiction to like success and money pushes it down. Being productive pushes it down. Like my thing was productivity. I always had to be productive, always had to be striving, right? To fill that void inside of me. So to answer your question, number one, I realized my nervous system was shot.

34:56 It was dysregulated, which if you have anxiety or panic, it's your nervous system's dysregulated, like 100% guarantee. So I had to learn how to fully regulate it. So that's something I still do to this day where I'll lay flat for 30 minutes and completely relax all the muscles in my body. And I walk people through this, but it releases the tensions, the deep, deep tensions. Tensions, what's holding all this stuff in. our bodies. So if we relax, we can process it better. But understanding, again, that everything that bothered me was the gateway. So instead of reacting to these moments, as best as I could, I would feel into that energy, like literally just feel my emotion. I know that sounds crazy to someone who's left brain.

35:36 I get it. Yeah. We want to what do I do? What do the steps? What do I do? Yeah. Yeah. It's completely that's masculine. Do, do, do. The feminine energy that you need to tap into, and guys, you have this energy too, is just to be with what energy is coming up and to let it release, let it process, let it do what it wants to do because it's coming up to the surface for a reason. So I started facing, you know, they say face your fears. A lot of people think and have the opinion like that means to do something to conquer your fear. And it can. Sure, that's very helpful. But facing my fears meant sitting with the fear when it came up. Like I wasn't going after them like crazy. But if it came up, I would sit with it, be with it.

36:17 Like being with the enemy, like hopping on the dragon, taming the dragon, like riding with it, being with it, making friends with it, the enemy. And then you realize not through mental strategies, not through affirmations, but once you let that overtake you and process and release, you get the up level. You understand you have clarity now, whereas you didn't before. I love what you're saying. And I want to edify this because, you know, this is something that I battled with really most of my life, to be honest with you. And I have a you know, I was blessed to have a very good friend and mentor and coach, a guy named Mike Basavik, who I just love dearly, you know, who really helped me to understand.

37:00 Yeah. being and allowing and really how counterintuitive it is the idea that, you know, we feel something that is resistant or feels negative to us. And our initial reaction is just like, no, I want to shove it down. I don't want to feel that. I don't want to deal with that. And it produces the opposite result of what we want. We think by shoving it down and not dealing with it. that we're going to make it go away. And in effect, like you said, it was a beautiful metaphor, you know, kind of the stacking and the layering effect that happens over time when we continue to do this. And we wonder why these things are so powerful. And I am in 100% agreement with you that many of the things that we, you know, experience physically, and this is coming from somebody who spent a long time in the health and fitness world and in wellness.

37:49 I believe wholeheartedly that many of the things that we experience physically are just a physical manifestation of, you know, a lot of things that are unreleased. So, so, so good. We're getting close to time here. And I know you've got something that we're going to give away to the audience that will really help people who are struggling with this. Or, you know, if you know somebody who's struggling with this. Before we get there, what would you say to somebody who's listening to this right now and is going, John, you don't understand? I mean, there's just... I can't or, you know, I'm just too overwhelmed or, you know, I don't even know what would happen if eventually someday I weren't on my medication or for that person who just feels like they're completely hopeless and they're in that dark night of the soul moment that you were in that I've certainly found myself in with these kinds of things.

38:35 What would you say to that person right now? Yeah, I'll speak to myself, who's in the dark night of the soul, who believes he's helpless and like there's no way out of this and like you're trapped in this is the direction you're going, meaning the things that you are doing every day, the thoughts you're having every day, the beliefs you're having every day are leading and causing the situation you're in right now. And that's very hard to accept. But it means there's a completely different way that's going to save you. A completely different way means it's not comfortable for you yet because you've never been that route. I had never been that route. I'd always been in my head. I'd always been a logical, figure it out, analytical type of left brain guy, like reason, logic, step by step, all this stuff, masculine energy.

39:19 That ain't it. You have to have a harmony with the feminine side. Guys, again, you have a feminine side. This isn't like boy-girl talk we're having. This is like you have to have a harmony in letting go, releasing, allowing, being. And if you don't know what that means and it sounds woo-woo or crazy to you, like that's why you're in this predicament. And it was for me too. I get it. But there has to be a harmony. There has to be a completely new direction you've got to go in because there's a reason you're stuck in this. And like there's a complete way out. But you have to learn a new way of being and incorporate that from people who've done it themselves. I mean, anyone can go the medical route. And maintain it and manage it and cope with it your whole life. But I didn't want to go that route.

40:00 I was like, I want this gone forever. So I went. And I love that. I think that's such an important distinction is that gone forever, because there is so much bullshit. And I know you know this. There's so much bullshit in the world about, oh, you're just stuck with this and it just is what it is. And conventional wisdom is just going to chuck the medication at it. And, well, we're just going to do our best to manage it. And sorry, but this just has to be your life. And that is garbage. And I love that you're saying that right now, my friend, because I think it's going to be liberating to a lot of people. Speaking of which, you've got something that you want to give away to the audience. So go ahead and tell us what it is and where we can get it. Yeah, I made a 12 minute video on how to release your anxiety for good.

40:42 Like if you have chronic anxiety, panic attacks, I go direct. Like I drop a nuclear bomb in that and just completely shift the paradigm on this video. Like this is not a mental issue. This is an emotional root issue of what you can do about it. And the guide is that release panic dot com slash free. It's a free guide. Just I get right into it. I don't waste any time because I really want to help people understand that the way they've been dealing with their anxiety with meditations and supplements and talk therapy will never get to the real route. Even though those things are not bad in themselves. Again, if you're focusing on the mind, we're not getting to the route. If you're the type of person who doesn't want to manage and maintain this and wants this gone forever like it did for me, then go download that guide and get started on your journey to the truth.

41:32 So good, guys. Just to repeat that, that is releasepanic.com slash free. Releasepanic.com slash free. Wow. What a powerful episode, man. There was so much goodness in this, John. First of all, I just want to honor you, brother. And you are such a wonderful example of somebody who is a legitimate high performer in their life, you know, in their business, has gone through all of the struggles, has the battle scars, you know, to show for it. Still has struggles every day, like, you know, like a normal human will, but finds a way to overcome and overcome. One of the things that I love about you and your story and your journey is that at every turn, you find a way to ask questions instead of shutting off the creativity that you've got by making statements about where you are, who you are, and all of that.

42:23 Brother, I honor what you're doing for people in the world. You're an incredible inspiration to me and other people. Keep after it. If this resonated with you, please do go grab John's guide. Again, it's releasepanic.com slash free. And man, again, thank you for spending the time with me again. Hopefully this is helpful for Brooke as he's spending time in Mexican jail today. And I can't wait to have you back, man. This has been super fun and just wonderful to catch up with you as well. Yeah. Pleasure that you're spreading because you're dealing and working with a lot of people on these podcasts who have magic and their fingertips. So thank you for digging in and letting me share the truth there for people. But yeah, great conversation.

43:05 Appreciate you. Awesome. Guys, thank you for listening to this episode of the Coaching Equation podcast, and we'll see you on the flip side. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Coaching Equation. Please hit subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you got value out of this episode, we would be so grateful if you would share it out with a friend and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite platform. To learn more about Empire Partners or to inquire about working with Ryan and Brooke, please visit www.empirepartners.io forward slash go.