The Code of Influence: Why People Really Say Yes with Cheri Tree

0:01 Being great at what you do doesn't automatically make you great at business. The skills that got you here won't get you there. This is Path to Mastery, the raw and real business podcast for service-based entrepreneurs, consultants, and practitioners ready to stop chasing tactics and start building foundations that scale. Hosted by Ryan Lang and Brooke Bishop, co-founders of Empire Partners. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the Path to Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Lang, CEO and co-founder of Empire Partners. And I got Sherry Tree with me today. What's going on, y'all? Good to see you. I'm so stoked for this because our audience really digs sales content.

0:46 And we're going to get to get into the things that I think are far more important than the strategies and the scripts and all the other things today with you. I want to ask you, I want to go straight to something. You said something to me before we started today that really, I'm going to say it was surprising and not surprising. Tell me the statistic on alignment of, you know, social profiles, so to speak, that you shared with me before we started, because I think it's a great way for us to kick things off. Yeah, perfect. So the Chali group did a study and they said, hey, do personality types matter in the sales process? They came back and published and they said only 18% of buyers will buy from a salesperson who does not match the buyer's personality type.

1:33 Right. versus 82% success rate or close rate when personality types are aligned. That was like a boom for me. So, okay. So this is Searge. So listen up. Do you want 82% or do you want 18%? I know what I want. That's right. So tell us a little bit, you developed a personality assessment method system called Bank. Yes. And I'm really excited to dig in on that today. Before you explain Bank... I want to know what was it that got you in tune with the idea that you needed to actually have a connection with someone, understand their personality, their model of the world, and that it wasn't just another old school sales conversation?

2:23 So this is where the journey began for me. I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He said, if you're going to be a great business owner, you got to be great in sales. I jumped in with both feet. First year as a financial advisor, commission only model. I crushed it. I made 700 bucks. No. That's a true story. Not for the day. Yeah. No, that wasn't like my best hour. That was my year. 1099. It was so bad. So I had a dream, right? I wanted to be a millionaire one day. I knew the path to getting there was being good in sales. And for five years, I studied everything I could learn about sales. I mean, I attended the workshops. I bought the CDs or even the cassette tapes back in the day. I'm reading books.

3:03 And over that five-year period, I'd ratcheted my income up to $72,000, right? And the company was like, hey, great job. I even won a trip. But I remember buying a hamburger poolside that I had to put on my credit card. I was that broke. $30,000 in credit card debt. I'm renting an apartment, couldn't qualify for a home, and I'm driving a salvage title BMW playing the fake it till you make it game. I mean, this thing would spontaneously die. I had to get my own set of jumper cables because I'd be stranded. And I could never park in front of my client's home because if I ever left and the car didn't start, like, how bad would that be? Like, can I have all your money? And holy cow, I need to jump. Right. So, so Robert Kiyosaki said, stop taking advice from people more messed up than you.

3:47 And I was like, yikes, like I have no business telling anybody what they should be doing with their money if I'm that broke. It just felt like I was a hypocrite. So I had to take a few steps back and say, Ryan, like, am I broken? Maybe I'm just not cut off for sales. Or is the system broken? And that's where I started to connect the dots because I started realizing the system was programming me to fail by telling me that sales was a numbers game. Yeah. They kept telling me that in order to get more yeses, I had to get more no's. And for five years, I bought into that. And all it did was put me into the hustle and grind mode. Whereas I took a few steps back and I said, wait a minute. That's actually the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Because the truth is, in order to get more yeses, you actually have to get more yeses.

4:32 So then the question was, okay, is there a secret to getting a yes? And is there a science to getting a yes? Yes. And as I went down that rabbit hole, I started realizing I shifted my focus from sales to people. And the discovery that I found was that sales was not a numbers game. It's a people game. Yes. So as I went down the rabbit hole of studying people, then I started discovering personality types and personality type assessments. And, you know, the familiar ones out there like DISC or NBTI or color code or I mean, literally, you can find out what astrology sign you are or whatever. Yeah. I took those assessments. And in the beginning, I was fascinated with what I learned about myself until it turned into frustration.

5:15 And I realized not one of these assessments is making me more money. Not one of them is helping me close more sales, recruit more people or anything like that. And I remember thinking, what's the point of these if it doesn't impact the bottom life? Yep. Yep. Show me the assessment who could tell me not who I am because no customer ever cared. No one ever interrupted me in the middle of a sales pitch saying, whoa, whoa, before you go any further, I just want to know your personality type. Right. Right? Yeah. But I remember thinking, okay, wait, what they all had in common was that there was four different types of people. I said to myself, well, I wonder if they have four different types of buying decisions then. And if what makes one person say yes makes another person say no. Yep. So I started to look for an assessment who could tell me who my buyer was, and it didn't exist.

6:00 So I said, I'm going to build my own as an experiment. And I ended up calling it bank. I love this. So once you cracked that code, you had the realization. How does it fundamentally, we talk a lot about disk, you know, Brooke and I on this show, and it's been a useful tool. But I'm really curious to know, how would you differentiate it from, we'll use disk as the example since we're both familiar. How would you differentiate it from something like disk? Yeah, perfect. So I do a little hand gesture. You can take a program like DISC, D-I-S-C, the four types, and BANK, B-A-N-K, and I'll explain what that means in a moment. But what I would say is that they're the exact same thing.

6:40 Okay. only completely different. And what made it completely different was DISC is based in psychology and bank was based in what I call biology. It was spelled B-U-Y-ology, which was the science of buying behavior. At the end of the day, I didn't care about whether or not the customer was introverted or extroverted. I cared about what triggers the yes or no outcome. So it was measuring different things and I needed the one that put money in the bank. I love this. And this is really important at the end of the day. I think a lot of times we have a tendency to see a couple of different types of personalities in people that we coach on sales.

7:24 It's either the hard charger, kind of more old school, bull in a china shop kind of a For someone that connects with the idea of, oh, I get, oh, wait a minute. Oh, I get to connect with my person and they're connecting all day long and sales are not happening. Here's the thing at the end of the day. If you're connecting and you're not selling anything, you can't create transformation for somebody who doesn't buy your services. So I think that's a huge distinction. And I love that nuance because you're absolutely right. Knowing someone's personality or connecting with them does not, at the end of the day, understand, you know, what informs them to make a fine decision.

8:06 That's right. Yeah, there's actually a three-step process. You have to connect, communicate, and then convert. The only failure in the sales process is the failure to close the sale, right? Because if you have a product that that customer needs and you would change their life as a result of them saying yes, then you must close that sale. Not through force, but through the right connection, communication, conversion process. Yes. So I want to ask you a question and I can't wait to get into this with you. You use this as a tool to sell more effectively for yourself, right? And you've now done this internationally, on stages, with teams, I mean, in pretty much every capacity.

8:50 What do you say to someone who says, oh, yeah, but Sherry, I don't like sales. Sales is just, I like to do what I do, Sherry. I'm really good at what I do. I just hate sales. Right. So I love this question. Robert Kiyosaki said the most important skill, the number one skill in business is your ability to sell. But sales is one of those off-putting words depending on what I would call your bank code. So all I do is I replace the word sales with influence. And now let me say it again. The number one skill in business is your ability to influence. And suddenly that has a totally different vibe than the word sales, which to some people feels like manipulation, feels like coercion, feels dirty, used car sales.

9:38 That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about how do you serve the customer? How do you get them to actually consume your product if it's in their best interest? This is selling with morals and integrity. Yes. And emotional intelligence. And that's how we use the bank framework. I love this because that boils it down to a story, right? It's what's the story that we're writing about sales at the end of the day? Yeah. And if you're running around all day long going, oh, it's icky, it's yucky, you know, and that's usually informed by either something that somebody told us, belief early on, right? Parent maybe, you know, or an experience or multiple experiences we've had with, you know, grody old school salespeople, that kind of thing.

10:20 That's key though, because if we can change the story, Now, you know, that we can change our state. And if we can change our state now, you know, all everything becomes possible. Um, so I'm, I want to, I want to ask when you, is this something that you see, you used it obviously as a tool with sales and, and that's a big part of our conversation. But I also look at when you really understand sales and connection and influence, I believe it makes you a better leader. And as a business owner, um, you know, I believe that you need to be able to sell as a business owner, but I also believe obviously that you need to be able to be a leader.

11:01 Tell me a little bit more about how you've seen bank impact areas that, you know, other areas in a business outside of sales, whether we're talking about leading employees, whether we're talking about, you know, connecting and influencing with, you know, partnerships and things of that nature. Tell me more about that. Yeah. So we literally trademark bank as the code of influence. Mm-hmm. And influence is one of those things that happens way beyond the sales room or the boardroom, so to speak. It's every single conversation with every single human. You're influencing them one way or another. The question is, do you have the awareness and do you have the ability to control that influence? So, for example, if I'm wanting as a leader, the leader possesses the ability to influence the audience or masses at scale.

11:48 And can you move that organization into the direction based on your vision? Because you're selling vision. You're selling the future. You're selling cooperation and teamwork. I mean, leaders have to be masters of influence to be effective. So, yes, that's a critical skill set. I think that in and of itself, what you just said, really changes the game. Because now all of a sudden, if I am a business owner, even if I'm a business owner of one, I'm a solo practitioner or a solo coach or I've got a VA or a very small team or something like that. Well, now I actually believe what you just said brings me to a fiduciary responsibility, right?

12:29 If I can wield this power of being great at what I do and I have something that the world needs in some capacity, me choosing not to master influence is me choosing to ignore what I believe is a fiduciary responsibility. That's really beautiful. So tell us more, help us understand bank a little bit better. Yeah, so bank is the acronym. So I brought a cool little set of demos. I think a picture says a thousand words. So the B in bank is blueprint. This is the one I use that's the color blue. This is going to be a person who's very conservative inside the box. I use blue because they're colder to approach. They're more formal. They're risk adverse.

13:09 They care about punctuality. They dot the I's and cross the T's, which means if any part of your approach is The way you're dressed, the paperwork organized or lack thereof is going to make or break the deal. Okay. The A in bank stands for action. That's the mover, shaker, millionaire maker. I use red because they drink like Red Bull for breakfast. Their hair's on fire. They want red carpet treatment. Okay. So this personality type is, is they love risk. They eat risk for breakfast. They chase opportunity. They want to make money. They want to compete. They want to win. They play, they play to win. This person requires a totally different approach. And you can see the polarity where cold and hot. If you approach them the same way, you're not closing both of them.

13:51 100. Right? You're attracting and repelling. The ennambank is nurturing. So I use the color yellow. This person's sweet like honey, warm like sunshine. They've got a heart of gold. Okay? This personality type doesn't care about the money. They care about the mission. Yes. The movement, the charity, the ethics. telling me all about your income. So they make their buying decisions from their intuition. And then the K in bank is the knowledge. I use the color green. This person loves data, science, facts so much. It's like Microsoft Excel spreadsheet logo. Or in the movie, The Matrix, the computer across the screen is green.

14:33 Well, this person makes their decisions with logic, with reasoning, with science, with facts, right? They want the white paper, the research. And out of the four, the only one you can't close is the K. They have to close themselves. Yes. And most people don't know how to set up the K to close themselves, which puts them into the stall of analysis paralysis and why they take forever to think about it. Okay. So there's very specific things. We've created a list of triggers and tripwires. A trigger moves them to yes. A tripwire moves them to no. Okay. And if the salesperson doesn't know what this is and they can't extract that, then you're left to the mercy of your own skill set and your own ability to try to figure it out.

15:19 Yep. Right? And this is where traditional sales training comes in where they say, hey, people will buy from you when they know you, like you, and trust you. Yeah. But nobody explains the science of what creates the know, like, and trust factor. And I discovered that through the lens of the code. Because otherwise I'm mirroring matching, you go whom and I go whom. That feels so manipulative to me. I hate that stuff. But if I know that you're a K and you need more information, or if I know that you're a blueprint and I need to dot the I's and cross the T's and talk about the money back guarantee policy exit clause, or if I know that you're in action and we got to talk about speed to market and how to help you crush your competition and... And when the goal or if I know you're nurturing and I talk about the nonprofit side of why we're really doing this and the impact work that we're doing behind the scenes.

16:09 Like all of this is intentional based on what's most important to you. Yes. Yes. And the flip side of our cards say make people matter. If you genuinely care about the human being and serving that human being with your products and services, then take a moment, take less than 90 seconds, and actually let's do it right now. Okay. I'm going to show you how to crack a code. Okay. And this is literally what I created. I wasn't trying to productize this or build it into a massive company. I was just trying to help me figure out how to talk to you. Yep. Yep. So I'd hand you a set of four cards based on values. Yes. And all I want you to do is prioritize them. Take a look at those four cards, Ryan, and sort them into your preferred sequence of most like you, most important on top, to least like you, least important to you on the bottom.

16:58 It's going to help me get to know you better. It's going to save us some time. There we go. Okay. Now here's the cool part. Number one, did you do the exercise? Yes. Yes. Zero resistance. I've been doing this for 25 years. Not one person has ever declined the opportunity to do it. Okay. Their curiosity hooks them. Number two, the topic on the cards, was it about you or me? It was about me. Yeah. So the customer is their own favorite subject. It's about this. Okay. The third thing is when I asked the customer, what? to crack their code and to do this exercise, I'm speaking all four parts to them. Like the audience may have heard me say it in English. Hey, crack your code, sort the cards. But I'm actually, and this is the magic behind it.

17:40 I'm speaking B-A-N-K to you. And I'm going to show you how this works. When I hand you the cards that say, take a look at the cards, I'm talking to the knowledge part of your personality that wants the data on the cards. Yep. I then give you instructions. I want you to sort them top to bottom, most like you to least like you. I'm giving you the framework, the rules, the process. Your blueprint got the check. Yeah. I then said, this is going to help me serve you better or get to know you better. The nurturing in you fills the connection authentically to a relationship with me. And I end it with, and save us both some time, because now the action person I type is like, get to the bottom line. I got to go. Yes. So this is a deliberately intentional speaking of the four codes.

18:22 And this is what's really important. I want you to understand this. Every person that you talk to is not just one of the four. They're a combination of all four. And that's what makes up their bank code. Okay. So if you think of a bank code, like a pen code, if you were to take out your debit card, put it into the ATM machine, it wants you to enter a four digit pen code in the exact sequence. If you want your money to come out, customers the exact same way. If you know that four digit bank code sequence, you communicate to that sequence, a yes will come out. And in sales, the money always falls. Mm hmm. I love this. And here's the thing. We can figure this out how quickly?

19:02 In less than 90 seconds. I mean, it was literally as fast as handing this to the customer and having them do that. And then, of course, as meetings went virtual and I'm talking to you on Zoom right now, I can't physically hand you these cards. So we solved it. That's what transitioned us from training company to tech companies. We started to build the tech of, I could send you a link prior to our meetings. Hey, before we meet, do me a quick favor. And I'll add a little expansion, especially if someone's a little bit more blueprint or knowledge, I'll explain why. The reason I'm inviting you to do this, and you'll notice on those cards, is the word values. If you're willing to share what your values are, then I can prioritize our time based on what's more important to you.

19:44 Yeah. Instead of potentially wasting your time based on what's more important to me. I love that. You say that to a real customer authentically, not manipulatively. What do you think happens to their trust with you? Go up or down? Up 100%. And if it goes up 100%, what do you think happens to the likelihood of the conversion? Yep. Through the roof. Through the roof to the bank. Yeah, absolutely. And so this became the coolest, fastest way to understand and put a window. Like most assessments is a mirror. Yes. Bank was the window to the other person and how I could influence you in a way that was authentic and an integrity for your best outcome in the shortest time period possible.

20:25 I love it. One of the things that I love about this is that it is timeless. However... I believe, I mean, Brooke and I talk about all the time right now that we are in a huge trust recession. Totally. Buyer trust is an all-time low. The need for certainty is at an all-time high. And most people, most business owners don't know how to crack that code. That's one of the biggest reasons I see for businesses struggling right now is that marketing that was working in, you know, 2018 isn't working anymore. Yeah. sales, you know, techniques that worked for 40 years in some capacity, at least, no longer working.

21:06 And we live in, you know, we're in a new age. And now with the advent of AI, so many people who either have had a bad experience with sales, haven't sold effectively, have certain beliefs about sales, are going down the road of, well, you know what, oh gosh, oh, I can outsource that. Oh, please, you know, let me outsource this. And I want to hear from you on this. As somebody who's obviously developed something that's very influential and influence-based, why can't we just outsource our influence to AI? Why do we have to have that human conversation? At the end of the day, we are human beings wanting to connect with other human beings.

21:47 Relationships is the core of everything that we do. That's what makes us tick. It's what makes us Humanity human, right? And so if you can learn how to communicate effectively and authentically, an AI is an artificial intelligence. And yes, we actually built our own AI called Codebreaker AI, the AI of influence, but we infused it with emotional intelligence and Meaning that when it understands the bank code of the person that it's communicating with, it can speak to that code with emotional intelligence where they feel understood. And that is an important element. But we can't remove the human from the experience of connecting with another human being.

22:29 AI can do really amazing things. But it can also, for every good, there's an equal part bad. I mean, there's people in dating relationships and sexual relationships with AI. That's outrageous. Because they're not getting the connection from another human beast. Yes. So what we need to solve for for humanity is how do we make people matter? Yes. How can I connect with you? How do I understand you in the shortest period of time possible so that we can make the most meaningful conversation, whether we're in business, whether we're in a relationship, whether we're co-parenting, you know, parent-child-belate, whatever it is. I need this code framework so that I can be a better human connecting with you as your human.

23:14 I love that. And it's one of the reasons that I think that what you're doing right now is so vital because it gives people an opportunity to go, oh, wait a minute. Okay, hold on. I can make more money if that's important to me. Okay, great. Wow. Okay, yeah, I'll do that. Oh, wait, I can actually connect at a deeper level with people faster? Oh, wait a minute. Okay, so that means I can make more impact? Oh, okay. Hold on. Yes. Right? Yeah. So how I want to get, I want to get people to this because listen, I love this. I'm super curious. I can't wait to collaborate more on this stuff. And I want to know, how can we send people to get their bait code? How can they figure this out for themselves?

23:55 Yeah, cool. So we set everybody up with a free link to go crack their code, right? And you guys are going to get access to that in the show notes. Click the link and you're going to see a screen where you're going to see four digital images, the bank codes. And all I want you to do is read them. They have sets of values on there and just drag and drop them into the sequence that's most like you. For example, my bank code is action first. Let's go. Let's make it happen. Nurturing second, let's make an impact while we're doing it. Knowledge third, like let's figure out how to do it. And blueprint last, we'll figure out how to dot the I's and cross the T's last. So my bank code is A-N-K-B. You cracked your code as well.

24:35 I think you put action first and then you put knowledge second. A and BK was my name. A and BK, yeah. So the blueprint of, yeah, action nerd, yeah. So we're almost the same blueprint you structured first, which is good. That means that you believe in SOPs and getting it all dialed in, which is great. You have to do that. So click the link, drag and drop it, and click submit. Here's what's cool is once you click submit, you're going to get a report all about you and your code and what makes you tick. But more importantly, and here's what's cool, is for the sales teams that are using this, we generate the sales playbook about the person who just cracked the code. Oh, cool. So that they now know here's how to connect, communicate, and convert that sale based on the code of the prospect that you just clicked on.

25:22 I love it. Right? We also have set of relationship playbooks, dating, parenting, marriage. Like what if this is, you know, you're introducing your wife to your parents or whatever. Like these are important moments. How do you build those relationships personally, not just professionally? Oh, man. I love this. And I want to say this, you know, I took I took the assessment yesterday afternoon. And, you know, with a being number one there, I will take the assessments, I've taken all of them. But man, I get to that point where I'm at about 80% done. And I'm like, good God, when are we finished with this freaking thing? It took me like two seconds to get done.

26:02 And that's what I think is beautiful about this. Because, listen, I've been doing this long enough to know, you know, the real from somebody who has just kind of figured a little bit out. Sherry, everything that you said today is the real deal. And the fact that you can diagnose so quickly and it's so on point is beyond impressive to me. And I just want to honor you for the work that you're doing in the world because you've got a heart for serving other people. I love, you know, the, you know, really the whole idea of making people matter and all of that, especially in the context of influence and sales. I think it's so important. I can't wait to do more.

26:43 Please go. This is so simple is the ultimate no brainer. If you want to have more influence, if you want to make more impact, go take the assessment. It's super fast. You'll get your bank code and you're going to be better for it. Sherry, thank you for being here, Gail. I love it. And matter of fact, we're going to do a masterclass for anybody who registers. I made it totally free so they can crack their code and get the masterclass if you really want to learn how to apply this and get results. And I never shared what happened. Let me just finish for this, please. implementing this into my business, I took my income from 72,000 to a half a million in one year. So I 7x my income in one third the time. 60 to 80 hours a week dropped to 20 to 30.

27:26 Within three years, my income was over a million dollars a year. So guys, I'm going to teach you how to crack the code and take it to the bank. I love it. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Path to Mastery podcast. Until next time, take care. Thanks for listening to the Path to Mastery podcast. If you got value from this, leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss a single episode. And if you know another entrepreneur who needs to hear this, do us a solid and send it their way. We'll catch you next time on the Path to Mastery podcast.