Purpose-Driven Leadership: Crafting Your Legacy with Mickey Feher

0:01 Welcome to The Coaching Equation, brought to you by Empire Partners and hosted by Ryan Lang and Brooke Bishop. Our mission is to help you build a profitable and impactful coaching business by cutting through the noise and all the expert advice to deliver tried and true actionable insights that you can deploy in your business today. Each week, we bring on expert guests, unveil cutting-edge tactics and strategies, and share the secrets and stories that we've gathered from working with the most successful coaching companies on earth. Welcome to Episode 4 of the Coaching Equation Podcast.

0:42 I'm your host, Ryan Lang, alongside my co-host and co-founder, Brooke Bishop. And today's guest on the podcast is Mickey Feher. Now, Mickey is based in New York City. He helps to guide successful entrepreneurs and business leaders worldwide, empowering them to unlock their full potential. His co-invention, the Success Mindset Maps Inventory, offers a transformative path through uncertain terrains to reach peak aspirations. Mickey is the co-founder of Mindset Maps International with Robert Diltz, a global institute dedicated to mindset mastery and research.

1:24 He hosts the Mantorship podcast and regularly publishes on Psychology Today and Forbes. He is also the co-author of the book, The Power of Mindset Change and the book, Generative Consulting, Tools for Creativity, Consciousness and Collective Transformation. Now, in this episode, as you would imagine, we dig in with Mickey hard on a subject that is near and dear to our hearts, and that is mindset. But in addition to that, we get real about entrepreneurship, what it really takes to be a successful entrepreneur, working with successful entrepreneurs.

2:05 We talk about sales, we talk about marketing, and we talk about the things that you need before you even start selling and marketing. Welcome in. Buckle up for Episode 4 of the Coaching Equation Podcast with Mickey Feher. There are so many topics that I want to hit on with you today and so many topics that play so strongly in both of our worlds. And this is going to be an episode that is going to be chock full of distinctions. So you're going to want to make sure and go back to this one. I Mickey, before we dive all the way in, brother, just give us kind of the CliffsNotes version about you.

2:45 Introduce yourself to our listeners. Great. So my background is in psychology. So I'm a psychologist and then I did an MBA and became a business person because when I graduated as a psychologist at the age of 21, I kind of looked around and I was like, how am I going to advise anybody on anything? I don't know anything. Yeah. I'm going to have to live a little. So I went into business and spent 15 years in a corporate career as a B2B chief executive in sales. I left my job and I became an entrepreneur. And I became a team coach and a coach, initially focusing a lot on teaching people how to sell.

3:27 And then as I was looking for more meaning in my own life, I realized that I'm actually interested in mindset and meaning and optimizing somebody's impact in life, my own impact in my own life, but then helping others to do the same. So I became a mindset researcher and that's kind of what I do today. And yeah, more in the details later. This sounds somewhat familiar. Sales, entrepreneurship, business, coaching. Mindset. Mindset. Yeah. We might kind of, yeah, kind of align on all that.

4:07 We have something in common. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me something. What was it for you? Because I think anybody who's obsessed with mindset, there's always a story behind it. And I'd love to kind of hear the origin story for you on what really got you obsessed with mindset to begin with. So it kind of started when I was a sales director and we had an amazing team. I hired a lot of people. We were a national sales team and we kind of looked into everything. We had one of the best commission systems. We were actually offering at the time, corporate cars were a big thing.

4:48 So everybody had cars. We had great products. We had the best marketing collateral. So everything looked really, really, really good. And yet, I could feel that I can't get the best out of people because somehow, you know, it was just a job for them. You know, they wanted to make money. Obviously, they enjoyed the good environment, but it didn't grab them. It didn't connect to their personal purpose. They couldn't feel that they come to work every day and they are doing something meaningful. So I became obsessed, like, what else do I need to fix? What else do I need to fix? What? And then... I basically realized that it's mindset.

5:28 We got to give more meaning to this work so that people can feel it somehow connects to their own personal purpose and what they do has some sort of higher meaning apart from being someone who delivers great goods and great services to customers. So being a leader at the time myself and figuring out why is it just a job? Why are people disengaged? And how do we turn this around? That's what led me to Mindsets First. You know, I feel like that can be such a eureka moment for those of us that come to it. I'm curious, how was that received when you excitedly brought that back to your team in whatever way you delivered that message to them at that time?

6:16 In all fairness, I was, I think, at the beginning at the time. So I was 37, young and stubborn and very ambitious. And I kind of believed that you have to use the carrots and the sticks. So I don't know if I did the right mix at the time, if I was able to do that. But what I noticed that as soon as we started developing initiatives where We were doing a lot of learning where we started to focus more on one on ones and trying to understand people's individual motivations and then helping them to kind of leave that motivation in their role. I mean, there was a shift.

6:57 There was a shift and it actually hit me like 10, 15 years later that I saw that all these people who were on the team, they became sales directors. They became chief officers of other companies. So something worked. I mean, they were talented. But I think what also worked was that actually, according to research, higher purpose is drives you higher up the corporate ladder. So it's something that helps you to elevate yourself, elevate your game. So eventually, it was very much proven. Higher purpose drives you further up the corporate ladder. Unpack that. Yeah, so the interesting thing is that according to research, basically people who are not just driven by their ambition and wanting to make money and wanting to make a name for themselves, but are also driven by some sort of higher purpose.

7:54 Like I want to deliver insights to people that helps them to optimize their life somehow. So people who believe... that there is meaning in the work that they do, they actually go up higher in the corporate ladder. So they, they're more likely to get to a leadership position because they become natural magnets because people kind of notice that like, How is it that Ryan is so driven? How is it that Ryan is always kind of upbeat? How is it that Ryan is not giving up? How is it that Ryan is so resilient? And then they find out, well, that's because Ryan is higher purpose driven because Ryan wants to make a difference for others, not just for himself.

8:39 So it's something that actually magnetizes others around you. And then your bosses begin to notice the same and elevate you. So that's kind of how it plays out. I love that. As somebody who has been an entrepreneur as well, and a leader of teams, let's just say that you are a business owner and you're leading your own organization, or you've got a significant amount of autonomy, perhaps, and you're leading a team within an organization. How do you convey that to your team in a way that really gets everybody on mission and on point? Because I think that it's true beyond the shadow of a doubt that when people have a larger purpose, they simply go further.

9:23 They fight for it more. Brooke and I were just having a discussion away from this episode about purpose and the why and the importance behind it and all of that stuff. How do you effectively communicate that to a team as a leader? So really good question. And there are, I'm going to try to make it short, although it's not easy. So, you know, as a leader, we are usually focused on the what and the where. So what people should do and have to do. Then we may also be focused on kind of like the how. Okay, so how you should do what you should do. So you have to make 20 calls every day, 100 calls every day.

10:08 And this is the five steps you have to go through in every call. So now we cover the what, where, and the how. But then, you know, there's a next level, which is what we call the why. So why do I do what I do? Why do I connect at the beginning of the call with somebody? Or why do I skip that part and try to connect at the end of the call instead? So that's the part where it comes to beliefs. And then it's not over the beliefs. It's also, so what's my identity? You know, like if I believe that I'm a conquistator, or if I believe that I'm a trailblazer, or I'm an orchestrator, that's a different identity.

10:50 One is going to go through the wall. The other is going to want to create harmony. So people's identity actually really, really inform their decisions and their actions. And then ultimately comes the question of, okay, so who am I? Why do I do this? And ultimately, what is my impact? So what I'm doing here, who's going to be impacted by that? And how is their life going to be any better? Right. And so business leaders basically need to keep that in mind. This is what we call kind of the mindset pyramid. And you have to have these conversations. So why are we doing what we are doing? How is this going to impact?

11:32 What is the intended effect? And then talk about, okay, who do we need to be in our discussions, in our meetings with our customers? And then to talk about, okay, what skills we have, what behaviors we must exhibit and in which context, not the other way around. If I start with, you have to do this, it's a must and you will do it as long as you're looking at me, I'm going to do it. But when you turn away, I'm going to go back to the old habit. That's really critical. And I have a quick question within that. Is there an easy way? Because I'm just putting myself into the shoes. Obviously, we run a company. So we're in leadership, right?

12:13 Is there a clean way to extract or to identify someone's identity that's on the bus? So somebody that's on our team to figure out what the hell is their identity? And also, how do I lead to or how do I communicate with that individual? Right. Good question. So that's what we call when we did our research, mindset research, and we interviewed hundreds of business leaders, and we were picking up on some of the patterns, we have identified that mindset has three levels. And one level is what we are talking about here, which is the meta level, the big picture clarity. And part of my big picture clarity is... is who I think I am.

12:54 And your question is right on because the problem is most people never think about that. So you can't just say, hey, Brooke, who do you think you are? Because you're going to misunderstand. Like, what do you mean? Are you trying to insult me? Or it's not going to come across as a meaningful question. So what we do is you basically have a conversation with your people and you can do, you can have that conversation right at the recruitment point, but also, you know, once they're in and we go through kind of like, okay, so tell me about your journey. Where do you come from? And just like lead with these open questions and tell me about, you know, your goals, where would you like to be? three years from now.

13:35 And then tell me, Brooke, okay, so you're saying you want to be a team leader three years from now. Interesting. That's great. You know, we have a place where you could probably make that happen. And I'm curious, who do you need to become... do you think in order to achieve that, to be a team leader? And then you will say something to that. So with these kinds of like, careful questions, I unpack your story. And hopefully, I'm going to hear a couple of good answers that helped me to figure this out. I love that you just hit a question. Literally, this is so in alignment. The stars are aligned. We were just talking right before this episode, right? It's the power and the question of who do you need to become?

14:16 I love that you just dropped that right in the middle there. I'm just like, oh, yes. So freaking important. But this is really, really cool. Now, are you translating this across all different types of organizations? Is that... Are you guys working with leadership all over the planet? Or do you guys have a specific niched area that you really like to get under the hood and play? Yeah. Yeah, we are, I guess, ambitious. And we said, we want to help all purpose-driven leaders who are interested in leading with purpose, who are maybe already doing this or maybe aspiring to do more of it. So changing their culture. So we say that we help purpose-driven leaders or aspiring purpose-driven leaders to optimize their impact. So we are not necessarily focused on one segment or one industry.

15:01 Obviously, we love, I mean, green industries and industries that want to make the world a better place. But we also have done work with companies like oil and gas companies who are looking for a way to become greener and change the way they are in the ecosystem. So we love the challenge of as long as you want it, I think we can help. That's the main criteria. Love that. Mickey, you talked about optimization. And while on the surface, I think any leader, business owner would resonate with the idea of optimizing and getting better. But in your eyes, why is it so important, especially for the purpose-driven leaders that are out there really trying to make the world a better place?

15:48 Why is optimizing impact so important? Yeah. You know, like so many people say, I wish I had more time. I wish I had more hours in the day. And I say, you don't need to have more time. You need to decide what matters most to you. because there's not going to be more time. And in most cases, what we see, the problem is not that there isn't enough time. The problem is that people are not making clear choices and decisions, and they don't prioritize. So if there's no priority, then everything is a priority. So, you know, just to give you maybe one example, which kind of links this to the coaching profession, because I know you guys talk to a lot of coaches with this podcast.

16:34 So for example, for me, when I came out from my corporate career, I was like, okay, so what am I going to do? Well... I'm best equipped to help the people I was. So I should help other sales leaders and maybe help them to become more purpose-driven sales leaders. So I became a coach and I was directly coaching other sales teams. And at one point, I kind of realized It was a good move because I established my business. It was great. But then at some point, I realized that somehow I don't feel like I'm doing what matters most because I'm only using my own time to directly coach people.

17:16 And I can only work with maybe three companies at its time. And I have a greater desire and ambition to make a bigger difference. So as soon as I figure this out, things started to become very clear because, okay, so then I need to optimize my impact. How do I do that? Well, maybe I need to create some sort of a method that other people can repeat, other coaches can repeat. And then if I can teach that method to other coaches and help them to differentiate themselves, so that's going to be their benefit. But my benefit is that I would love to make a bigger scale difference. And I cannot do it only by myself, only through these other people.

17:57 So as soon as I figure this out, it kind of gives you a direction, a priority, a focus, an ambition. It becomes very clear that you have to create the product. It becomes very clear that you have to have a repeatable process. So your business model starts kind of coming together. And it's a very different business model from being a high ticket coach. And I'm not saying that everybody has to do the same thing. What I'm saying is that you have to decide what matters most to you. Maybe what matters most to you is that you talk to five famous people and those are your clients and you can say that you made a difference for X, Y, and Z.

18:37 It's great. Maybe you don't care. Maybe you want to help underprivileged people and give them access to tools. It doesn't matter, but be clear. Because if you're not clear, then there's not enough time in the day. There are no priorities. There's no focus. And then you never break through. Love that. So let me ask this question because I think while we're on the subject of coaching and coaches, one of the things that we hear from coaches all the time is, I'm just not serving enough people. I haven't helped as many people as I want to. I'm not living my purpose yet because I haven't been able to serve or help enough people. Now, the 3 of us all know that in order for that to actually come to fruition, there's got to be... We're talking about sales.

19:23 We're talking about marketing. We're talking about fulfillment, all of those things. But I want to hone in specifically, Mickey, on kind of like your magic in this process and helping coaches make a bigger impact and optimize their impact. What's kind of your magic twist on that? So it goes back to the question of, okay, how do we think about mindset? So mindset is kind of a story story. kind of a set of beliefs that creates this inner attitude. And unless I get this inner attitude, right, I'm going to make work quality decisions and poor work quality actions.

20:03 Then out of those poor quality decisions will lead to work quality outcomes. So our magic is very simple. But first of all, we have seven steps. So it's a process, right? Like it's not like a one thing. And the seven steps start with a way of cultivating a great mental and physical state. So you have to get into a state. Think about it, you know, like as a coach, if you want to coach other people, if you want to make a bigger impact for more people, it's not just about a process that you take them through or a skill, but it's also an ability to create a state where people can learn.

20:47 And it actually starts with you. So state mastery, we teach some specific tools to be in a really good state and to help others be in a really good state. Then what we do is we help people to what we call the meta clarity. So it's the beyond clarity. Like I go up the top of the mountain of my life. I look down and I kind of really take a big look at what matters to me. Because as you say, a lot of people say, yeah, I'd love to help more people. I haven't fulfilled my purpose. But when you go up that mountain and you look at everything, you look at your kids, You look at your relationship.

21:29 You look at your friends. You look at your ailing parents. You look at your community. And you look down and maybe you say, oh, you know, I always thought I have to have thousands of people. I have to get them in a stadium and I have to be on the big stage. But now when I look at this, you know, I really just want to be useful in my town and, you So I'm not saying that's guaranteed to happen, but often we have this dream of our ego wants us to be, oh, hundreds and thousands and this and that. And then when you really consider what matters, you go, okay, let me adjust that.

22:12 So I think that kind of big picture clarity of what matters to me is... And how do I want to balance those things is kind of the number one thing, even before I start selling and marketing. So the other idea is standing in your strength and being very specific and clear on what it is that you do when you're at your best. Because if I just say, I'm a coach and I'm really good at coaching leaders, that's not at all being specific. Yeah. The question is much more like, okay, when was the last time you were in front of somebody or a team or a crowd? And what exactly did you do?

22:55 So we kind of hone in on something very unique and very specific. If I'm clear on that, and I'm clear on my ambition, and I'm also kind of in balance with my values and the other things that matter, I can decide much better what that focus should be. But not before I know all these things. This is so wise. And one of the things that I want to point out about this is that, listen to what the man said, before we sell and we market and we fulfill and do all the things, we need to be clear on our unique gift. And we also need to be honest with ourselves.

23:35 Mickey, I love that you brought that up because I think that especially in today's society, I think that there's really a lot of people convincing themselves that they should want one thing or another in their lives, in their businesses. And to your point, listen, Brooke and I have seen this a million times. Get a coach that walks in the door and because they've seen other people saying the same things, they go, Oh, yeah. Yeah. I want a million dollar coaching business and la la la la, you know, and then when they actually figure out what it looks like to have a million dollar coaching business, what it's going to take, who they're going to be working with all of the things it's kind of like, I don't know.

24:23 I really want that. Yeah. And by the way, it's okay if you do want a million dollar coaching business. That's a okay. The point is, it's all right to be honest with yourself. And it's also okay. One of the other things, Mickey, and I'd love to hear your take on this, but... You know, we preach all the time that it's okay to change your mind. It's okay to start by saying, hey, I want a million dollar coaching business. And then you get to 250K and you go, man, you know what? I'm serving a lot of people. I really love what I'm doing. I love the freedom that I have in my life. And if I actually get to a million, things are going to change significantly. And I love the impact that I'm making right now. What do you feel about being able to change your mind on that?

25:07 100%. So basically, what we teach is, there's a reason it's called mindset, right? Like it's, you can set it and reset it. And if you don't set it, someone else will set it for you. So, you know, kind of the number one step is taking ownership of your life and set your mind. And our tool, what we created, which is basically a kind of an online inventory, it helps you to map out your current mindset to your point. So here is where I am now. And then I kind of really, really consider what my focus should be. And I set out on a certain road with the right mindset.

25:48 And then I do my marketing, I do my sales, as you say, my fulfillment, and I get somewhere. check. Wait a minute. You mean you don't just set this one time and then we're good? Yeah. So the bad news is, yeah, it's a habit, right? Like it's something that we usually like to say, you know, if you're not ready to work on your mindset every single day, don't even start because it doesn't work with one big aha. I went to the stadium, we jumped over the fire, You have to have those things. But what happens after?

26:30 What happens two months later, three months later, a year later? Is it still there? I think that's the true test of a great mindset. So therefore, it has to be something that you set and reset all the time. And it doesn't mean that you change your focus, but it might mean that after a number of years, you realize as you say, okay, okay. I scaled and I thought I should scale up to this level. But right now, this feels really good. So I'm just going to be here. So 100%. Now, Brooke, I got to ask you because I honestly, I've never asked you this. Did you ever do the firewalk? Oh, I did probably 50 firewalks.

27:11 Did you really? Did you like, so like, I got to know, I've never asked anybody this. Did you like burn the shit out of your feet or anything? Yeah. We had one time in Texas, we had a Dallas event. And we had a lot of people that actually got burned. I think we had like over 150 people that got burned. Ooh. And it turned into a huge media blitz. And it was insane. But to Mickey's point, I cannot tell you how many people would go to a weekend. They go to the event. And on the other side, they're like... I'm good for the rest of my life. And they go back into their old environments. You know, they go back to all the same triggers and they didn't come out with a plan. I love that Mickey just mentioned that with, I mean, treating your mindset basically the same way you treat your body, right? Like working on it every single day.

27:52 Yeah. It's a freaking muscle. So, but yes, burned my feet a couple of times. Most of the time didn't, but we had a couple, we had a couple of scary, scary situations. Mickey, I want to ask a question. So I've got a couple of people that are literally in my mind right now. They might even know who they are if they listen to this episode. But I have a couple of people that I know who are really wonderful coaches who would literally go, I am a mindset coach. I don't need mindset. What do you say to that person? So, you know, it's kind of like parenting, right? So what is parenting? Everybody will have an opinion and everybody will be proposing like, here is my framework to parenting.

28:34 You got to let them make their mistakes. No, you don't got to let them hear you. You got to tell them what to do because they don't know yet. Okay. So everybody has like some story around this. But the question is... Do we really have true expertise? Do we really know how to not make those mistakes that you regret for the rest of your life? So for mindset, what we felt was that everybody talks about it. Yes. A lot of people claim that they are mindset experts. But very few people went out to talk to hundreds of purpose-driven leaders and really understand their thinking and understand the case studies of their success. So what we wanted to do is to create a framework, again, which visualizes mindset.

29:18 So the reason it's called Mindset Maps is that we don't just have a conversation, you and I, but... We would do this conversation and the inventory. At the end, there would be a map there that we could both look at. And you could look at it and go, oh, that's how my mindset looks like. And that's how it compares to other purpose-driven leaders who have scaled their business. And there are some gaps here. That's interesting. So what we wanted to do is to make it... more tangible, visible, and to give coaches like a multi-dimensional tool to actually start the coaching with an intake and then maybe allow the client to take, you know, in the middle of the process, the maps again, the inventory again, and see what moved, what changed.

30:07 So we are trying to make something that's invisible. And we all know it exists. We all know it controls us. But we're trying to help to make it visible and create a language around it so that we can advance someone else's mindset. I love that. Yeah. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think we're in agreement that when it comes to mindset, it's an ever expanding piece. That would be one of those pieces that to me, if I woke up one day and said, Oh, I've just mastered mindset. Like I'm good. I'm done. I'm in big trouble at that point. I feel like I think it's something that to your point, it would be kind of like one day if I just woke up and I was like, Oh, I've mastered this gym thing.

30:48 I'm not working out anymore. I'm good. Same thing. Beautiful, man. I love that. I want to ask you about something that I've heard you talk about before. And I'll be honest, I haven't actually gotten a context around it. What's the second mountain in life? What does that mean? Expand on that for us. So it's this idea that especially if you are kind of in your, say, 30s, 40s, or God forbid, 50s, then you probably have climbed at least one mountain in your life. And that mountain for a lot of people is usually about a little bit of the ego, the proving, the ambition, the making money, the making a name for yourself.

31:34 Some people actually go the other way around. So they kind of start out with just giving, giving, giving and being mission driven, but they're in minority. So most people actually go the other way. Like, let me just make some money and make a name for myself. And then at some point when you're kind of on the top of the mountain, you look around and you're like, uh... Yeah. Is that all? Is that all there is for me? And by the way, if I look at, yeah, I didn't make all this money. But if I look at, I lost all my friends. And by the way, I never see my kids. And by the way, the nanny has a better relationship with my son than I do. Shit. So that's the kind of the reckoning.

32:15 Sounds familiar. Yeah. And then you say, okay, so, all right, what's my next mountain in this life? How do I define the next challenge, the next level, the next mountain that is going to maybe help me to build a legacy? That is going to create more meaning that is not going to, I mean, I'm a great believer of not either or because it's not like, okay, so now I'm going to have to give up everything, not make a dollar anymore. It's all going to be meaning. That's my second mountain. I think it's usually an interesting combination of changing certain things, doing certain things differently, maybe starting a business, but maybe even staying in the same job and doing it completely differently.

33:03 Sometimes it's impossible. Sometimes it's possible. But re-engineering your life and creating a next mountain that is more in balance with your values and what matters to you most. That's what I call the second mountain. And... By the way, I did not just invent this. I don't want to claim all credits for that because there's a guy called David Brooks who talks about the second mountain. We just already gave you credit for it. So it's too late. Yeah, it's all over social media. I do love this concept, especially for our coaches, just because they're going to have so many achievers that they bring in as clients. And so to be able to speak to that framework, I think is beautiful. And I'm stoked to know that you've taken something that for so long, in so many ways has been somewhat intangible, and you made it tangible.

33:52 So what I mean by that is there's a lot of times when working with coaching clients, they come in and they're getting all this value and they're getting all this growth in who they are. But so many people just want to equate it to how much money did I make by working with this coach? Or how much weight did I lose by working with this coach? If it's not in those two camps, it's pretty tough to quantify. And so to have this dynamic of a tool to go, Hey, here's the mindset that you had. And here's the path that you went down. Where are you at? Where's the gap? I love the fact that you've been able to quantify that. That excites the heck out of me. Agreed. Yeah, I think it's an important differentiation between this approach and other mindset approaches. Sometimes mindset is, you know, somebody just says, okay, mindset is everything, you have to have more grit.

34:36 And I do agree with you that grit is great. So is radical candor. So is courage. So is purpose. But it is just one thing of your mindset. It's not all your mindset. So you got to have a more comprehensive view of what mindset is. And that's what we are providing. Measurement and a more comprehensive way. And then a way to kind of, you know, be in the mindset gym every day. Work out. Work on it. I love that. Let me ask you this question, Mickey. Brooke and I are both big on congruence. As coaches, we believe that if we're going to ask something of somebody else, that we need to be able to really stand in that and to be able to look ourselves in the mirror and say that, hey, these are things that we're doing or these are ideals that we hold or standards, etc.

35:26 So I want to kind of ask you about this personally. Yeah. Tell me about how you handle mindset in your life. What's the role that it plays in your life? How do you cultivate your mindset on a day in and day out basis? And what are some of the ways that it's played a pivotal role in your success? Yeah, thanks for that question, because that's very important. I agree. I want to kind of go back to the first big decision that I, like it was a really big decision for me, which I made, I feel like, was leaving the country when I was very young. And I went to the Middle East and lived there for a while in Israel. And already at that point, but I thought I was like very young, I noticed that before I make a huge decision, something overcomes me and overpowers me.

36:15 And I have these interesting symptoms like, maybe I feel out of breath or kind of like a small panic attack. So at the time, I kind of attributed it to being very young and it was not planned. And obviously, if you just suddenly move to a different country, it's going to hit you hard. But then I noticed that every single time in my life, before I left my job as a chief sales officer and became an entrepreneur, I noticed the same thing out of breath. So what is that? And I kind of realized that I'm not cultivating my mindset on a daily level. You know, I work out. I have a lot of grit. I read a lot.

36:56 I develop myself and I read self-development, but something is missing. So I began to look for practices that... that would help me to overcome panic. And that would put me, I said, you know, out of the seven steps of mindset mastery, state mastery is number one. So I found a number of practices. It varies. Like I truly believe that we all have to have our own mixes, but I start every morning with a little meditation practice a little yoga and a little bit of Qigong, which is from martial arts. And I visualize every morning going to that mountain and looking at my life and kind of setting my intention.

37:38 So that's kind of like one simple practice. And when I feel that, you know, things are getting really tough, I would do this not once, but maybe in the morning and in the evening or sometimes during the day. So that's just kind of one practice. Love that. And there's a number of other practices. But basically, the idea is to build a mindset repertoire, right? Like a set of tools for yourself. And one very interesting piece of it, which I wanted to mention, to your point about people being deluded nowadays. So I'm sitting at home. I don't have much feedback. Yeah. And I'm beginning to believe these things that I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that and I'm this and I'm that.

38:24 It's partially because we have so little trusted feedback. So building, you know, kind of a circle, being part of... to your point, a mastermind, having a group of guys, people around you that you truly trust and seeking feedback. So I mentioned the meta part of the mindset, but there is something we call the macro part, which are certain habits of we call longevity and sustainability. And one of them is this kind of seeker, being a seeker of feedback. Because if I do seek feedback, it still gives me a challenge because I'm going to have to choose which feedback I take.

39:07 And sometimes some feedback I'm going to have to let go. But it's less likely that I'm completely in a bubble, right? So that's also part of Mindset Master, building these muscles, building these beliefs that I must be a seeker. I must be a scanner. I know my focus, but I still need to scan. I still need to get feedback. I still need to be able to pivot. Yeah. I love that I've heard from you now multiple times throughout this episode, the word feedback. Because it's such a vital component. And I think it's something that's missing for so many people. And you used a very specific word that I want to hit on there.

39:48 Trusted feedback, right? Because we get feedback. There's feedback coming at us from all angles, right? Yeah. My wife gives me feedback. Sometimes I wouldn't call that trusted feedback. Love you, honey. That might be a good title for this episode. The power of trusted feedback. Hey, yeah. Yes. I love that though. I think it's absolutely vital. And I think not enough people talk about it. And in order to get success, to your point, How do we even know if we're on track if we can't get feedback and then adjust, right? And correct course as we go. I think it's such a misconception that in life, in business, we're going to decide on the destination and we're going to set that course.

40:32 And by God, we're just going to float along right down the path and everything's going to be cool. Now, of course, it doesn't work that way. The path gets windy. There are mountains to climb and peaks and valleys to navigate and all of that stuff. And we've got to be able to get that feedback so that we can make shifts as needed to continue to stay on track. Love that. Now, Mickey, you guys have an actual certification around Mindset Maps. You know, I love this subject. So please tell us all about the certification. Certification is designed for coaches and also purpose-driven leaders who are interested in leading their own mindset and their team's mindset.

41:18 And it teaches basically a framework. It teaches a seven steps process of how do you align, set your mind? How do you make sure that you are in your best mindset? And this process covers the state mastery. the big picture clarity we talked about, the discovery of what matters, the focus, then the longevity habits that we mentioned, then it gets into the daily habits. So there is nine things that we have identified in our interviews, where you have to be conscious of being able to wear those hats on a daily basis and decide your priorities.

41:58 Then we kind of teach how to transform obstacles and inner, we call them demons sometimes, right? That appear beliefs that we have about ourselves. And then how to have accountability and track our progress. So it's a seven-step process, which is something when you come through the certification, you learn to apply this to yourself. But the other thing is you learn to coach others through it. So we teach you a whole coaching process. to take people through the seven steps. And we teach you how to use the mindset maps, which is the tool to measure the path on the seven steps.

42:39 So when you come out of the training, you have a new tool, a multidimensional tool that's going to differentiate you as a coach. And you don't just gonna be one of the people who says mindset, mindset, mindset, but you will actually know what mindset is and you'll have a tool to measure it. It's a kind of a hybrid program. So it's mostly interactive. So we spend about 30 hours in interactive sessions. It's split over six modules. So it's a very practical thing with a lot of practice coaching each other. us doing demos, and then you using it with your clients and coaching each other. And there's a lot of work that people do outside.

43:21 So at some point, they start using the tool with their friendly clients. And at the end, they get certified using the tools and become part of a international community. So we have 260 people globally at the moment, and it's growing as we speak. Man, this sounds amazing. And I love the idea, especially for the high achievers that are out there. What better than to go out and be able to advance yourself and to be able to improve and expand your own mindset, and then to be able to take that tool and make a bigger impact and difference on the clients that you're coaching? The beautiful part about it too, Mickey, correct me if I'm wrong, but Mindset's applicable across all different industries and disciplines.

44:07 It's universal. So it would seem to me that this would be beneficial for any coach or leader who really wants to be able to not just expand their own mindset, but those of their clients and their team. Am I on track with that? You're absolutely on track. And I just want to mention, so the sources of this work, they come from the research we did. They come from, you know, my own life. You know, I mentioned a few situations where I kind of used it on myself. I also have a partner and his name is Robert Sperry. B. Diltz. And he is someone who has coached people like Steve Jobs at Apple. He's from the Bay Area.

44:48 He's one of the founders of a coaching and therapeutic approach, which is called neurolinguistic programming. And he actually trains some of the biggest names in the coaching industry. Amongst them, Tony Robbins is one disciple. So I think he's an amazing person. And I really wanted to kind of take his mindset, his practice and his experience working globally with thousands of leaders and businesses and put it into this tool. So you're getting that as well. That's awesome. That sounds like a pretty amazing opportunity to me. So if somebody is interested in digging in on this certification, I know I am, please tell our listeners where they can go if they're interested in learning more about the certification.

45:33 So one place you can go is mindsetmapsinternational.com. So in one word, mindsetmapsinternational.com forward slash certification. So on that page, you will have all the information. You also have the ability to book a free call and talk through your practice and how the certification would apply to it. So we encourage you to use that opportunity. certification. Mickey, thank you for that, brother. This is exciting. Please make sure you go check out Mickey's certification. Again, as coaches, as leaders, as business owners, it's incumbent upon each of us to be able to expand our own mindset.

46:19 And at least as far as I'm concerned, the more tools I can put in my tool belt that will allow me to make a bigger impact on my clients, I'm all in brother. I love what you're doing. We're so aligned in the way that we approach things and Honestly, Mickey, I want to honor you for the work that you're doing in the world, man. I know that the ripple effect that you're making both through these certifications and the coaching that you do, the work that you do with various organizations is making, as you talked about earlier, a massive impact. You truly are standing for all of the things that you preach. And I want to honor you for that, brother. You're an incredible man, a brilliant guy. and this has been a great episode. It's been really good. Thank you for taking the time out and coming and hanging out with us today.

47:03 Well, thank you, Ryan. And thank you, Brooke. And may I return the favor and say that I also want to honor your work and the masterminds and all the work that you do for the coaches, because I think we can make a big difference. But I think if we're equipped with the right tools, we can make a much, much bigger difference together. So thank you for doing your work. Amen to that. Amen to that. Thank you, man, for coming on today. Seriously, I'm excited to dig into this thing. And I know our listeners and our members are going to be pumped to get their hot hands on this thing. Great. Awesome. All right. Well, Mickey, thank you, my brother. Guys, once again, throwing out that link for Mickey's certification, www.mindsetmaps.com.

47:48 international.com forward slash certification. Go check out the certification. Highly recommend. That's actually starting up here in just a couple of weeks. So you're going to want to get on that. Mickey, thank you again, my friend. I look forward to doing this again. I think we're just scratching the surface of really voluminous topic and you are an incredible expert on it. So friend, thank you again. And we'll see all of you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Coaching Equation. Please hit subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you got value out of this episode, we would be so grateful if you would share it out with a friend and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite platform.

48:33 To learn more about Empire Partners or to inquire about working with Ryan and Brooke, please visit www.empirepartners.io forward slash go.