The 5 Biggest Mistakes Coaches Make in Their Coaching Business

0:01 Welcome to The Coaching Equation, brought to you by Empire Partners and hosted by Ryan Lang and Brooke Bishop. Our mission is to help you build a profitable and impactful coaching business by cutting through the noise and all the expert advice to deliver tried and true actionable insights that you can deploy in your business today. Each week, we bring on expert guests, unveil cutting-edge tactics and strategies, and share the secrets and stories that we've gathered from working with the most successful coaching companies on earth. Welcome to Episode 9 of the Coaching Equation Podcast.

0:42 I'm your host, Ryan Lang, CEO and co-founder of Empire Partners, alongside my co-host and co-founder, Brooke Bishop. And in today's episode, Brooke and I are breaking down the five biggest mistakes that we see coaches make when starting a coaching business. Now, right now, if you've already started your coaching business, you might think, well, I'm going to start a coaching business. I don't know if I need to listen to this episode. Not so fast, my friend. Listen, if you're starting a coaching business and you haven't really gotten going yet, this is exactly what you need to make sure that you avoid some of the biggest pitfalls and honestly, some of the ones that you don't even know about. These aren't just the obvious ones.

1:24 These are the ones that through years of experience, both Brooke and I have identified, are the top five biggest mistakes. Now, you might have already started your coaching business, but you're stuck. This episode is for you as well, because you might just find that stuck point, that mistake that you're making that's keeping you stuck right now that you can remove and improve and get back on momentum. And if you're already in a pretty successful place with your coaching business, you may find the thing that's stopping you from scale. So regardless of where you sit in your journey, this episode is going to be impactful for you. Dive in, dig in and buckle up for episode nine of the Coaching Equation podcast.

2:06 Welcome back to the Coaching Equation podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Lang, CEO and co-founder of Empire Partners, alongside my co-founder and co-host, Brooke Bishop. What's going on, brother? What up, what up? What up? Dude, I'm so excited for this episode. We've kind of been waiting on this one, to be honest, and I'm really excited to do it. So today we're gonna be talking about the five biggest mistakes that coaches make when starting a coaching business. And, you know, Brooke, you and I were talking offline yesterday, and as we were just kind of discussing this episode, I was saying, my God, like, I wish, I wish I'd had someone to tell me.

2:48 Some of the things that we're going to tell our audience today, because it would have saved me so much time, so much headache, so much heartache. And let me tell you a shit ton of money. To clarify, did you say five or 500 mistakes? I just want to be clear on how many we're digging into. Yeah. This could just be a whole podcast on all the mistakes that coaches make. We can make that the entire podcast. But I'm really excited to do this because our objective today is to really help shortcut your learning curve. I'm grateful for all of the things that I had to go through in order to get to where I am today. But I wouldn't wish it on anybody. So we want to make this easier for you.

3:29 Let's go ahead and dig in here, brother. So number one, getting ready to get ready. And this happens all the time. Some of you right now are listening to this and this is going to resonate because you got your coaching certification or maybe you've got an expertise that you're bringing with you from another area of life or a previous business or whatever. And you've been thinking about this and you've been thinking about it and you've been thinking about it and you're waiting for everything to be perfect and you're still not launched yet. So let's dig into this, bro. Talk to me a little bit about your thoughts on getting ready to get ready. It's the law of perfectionism. It's this belief that we're, you know, if we have another set of letters after our name, or if we have another certification, or if I have, you know, I've got my NLP certification, but if I get my master prac, well then only if then, then I'll be equipped to be able to go help people.

4:21 And then you go to your master prac and then you go, Oh, I need to go get my PCC or my BCC or my, you know, whatever, all, all the letters that are out there at the end of the day. There's people out there that are suffering that need your expertise and they don't need you to have some other tool in your arsenal. Like if you've got a hammer, start building. There's this piece of we've got to have the whole toolbox and we've got it. And it's endless. It's just this endless game. And we end up conditioning this dynamic of being a badge hunter. The real undercurrent is, is we have this underlying belief in ourselves of am I good enough as really that driving force behind it. And it just bites us in the ass and it keeps us from helping. I completely agree.

5:02 And, you know, one of the things that I think this shows up in different ways. So, and I want to illuminate a few of them because it's not always like the classic case of I'm literally doing nothing sometimes. And I'll give you an example, you know, in my own coaching business, when I first started coaching, what I would do is I would get myself into the spot where I got a couple of clients. So technically on a technical level, I had launched, I, But then I would, instead of going out and getting more clients or really like driving my marketing and my messaging and all of the things, I would stop myself there and tell myself, oh, you know what? I mean, I know I got my personal training certification, but I need to go get a holistic nutrition certification.

5:47 I need to go get like a TRX certification. I need to go get a kettlebell certification. And I would stop myself from getting new clients that way. And it was maddening because I couldn't stop myself from doing it. And the truth is, after I went and got a lot of those things, it really didn't matter at the end of the day. Just to stack on, I mean, this is the funny piece about all of it. How many people actually said, hey, Ryan, which certifications do you have? Because it's a condition of me working with you. Zero. Never. They don't care. How many of them even know what certifications even exist? Yeah. Nobody knows. It's definitely this fallacy. It's this thing in our head of we need to have XYZ in order for people to want to work with us. Or here's the other one too.

6:28 I've seen a lot of people bullshit people into enrolling with them saying, if you had this certification, you can charge more. Yeah. Garbage. Yeah. Garbage. Your efficacy is what allows you to charge more. And I think one of the things too that I would say about this is that that doesn't mean, by the way, that certifications are worthless or that furthering your education is worthless or that your growth and learning is worthless. It's not that. It's doing that in the name of... launching. You can't go that route. You got to rip the bandaid off and you got to go. And you know, one of the things too, that I think plays into this is imposter syndrome.

7:10 I know that for me, you know, when I started my coaching business, I had helped build an eight figure business in the energy industry. And I took a year off to figure out what I wanted to do. And I ended up getting back into health and fitness. That was, you know, something that I had done in the past and kind of felt like low hanging fruit. I wanted to help people, et cetera. And one of the things that I experienced was it sounded like a really great idea. And then when I actually started doing it, I started looking around at all of the other people and going, oh, my God, look at all those certifications. Oh, my God, look at what they've created. And it was total imposter syndrome. And I think so often that the whole getting ready to get ready syndrome is driven by imposter syndrome.

7:56 I totally agree. And I think it's just a beautiful distinction that you made within that. There's two pieces I just love to double click on because there's a yin and yang that goes with this. We actually just had one of our members who she's in the middle of building out her coaching program. Right. And she's in that phase of she was literally emotionally. She's like, I'm ready to launch next week. And then she jumped into the pond. I'm going to go check out all my competitors before I launch. Yeah. And she went and looked at people who had their businesses already in play for three, four, five, 10 years. Yep. And guess what triggered in her brain? She goes, oh my God, look at how much content they have. Look at how many videos they have. Look how many tutorials they have. Look at how much this they have. Look at all this stuff they have. I can't launch until I have as much as they have.

8:38 And she immediately torpedoed, hit the brakes and threw in the towel. And so we had to pull her out of it. Now, to your point, I think it's really, really critical that people hear us. The training should never stop because if you're not growing, you're dying. Yep. Amen. Additionally, you should be aware of your competitors, but we want to be really, really clear here. You don't have to have every certification under the sun in order to start helping people. You don't have to have your program baked out to the point that somebody who's already invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and years and hours and hours of time building. Yep. Hit pause there for one second because you just said something I think is really important. You don't have to have your program baked out.

9:21 Guys, this is another kiss of death. This held me up for forever. And it does. So many coaches come to us. And this is exactly where they're at where, well, I haven't built my whole program out yet. So I can't go start getting leads. Bullshit. Look, let me give you a word of advice. And if you take it, trust me, you're going to make more money and you're going to help more people faster. Yeah. Don't wait to build out your program. Look, however you decide you're going to construct your program, the only thing that you need to have ready is day one, week one. That's it. Build the plane in flight. Don't wait. Because the truth is that when you go off and build a program, this happens all the time, by the way.

10:02 I have watched so many people go build a program, and then they get done building the program. Nobody buys the fucker, and they're like, Oh, shit. What do I do now? Back to ground zero. Right? Back to ground zero. Just put in all this work. I don't even have proof of concept. Or they build it and worse, they look at it and they go, yeah, you know what? I just, and it's so funny because they'll do this. They'll come on a group coaching call and they'll go, oh, you guys, I just had this super big aha today. I just finished building my entire program and I realized that it's actually really not done yet. Right? I actually realized that I need to go back into week two. And there's so many tweaks that I really need to make.

10:43 And da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Garbage. I want to stack on one really important piece. And I'm going to throw my mom under the bus. So if she's listening to this, she's going to get pissed. Love you, mom. I love you. Pre-frame. I love you. So here's the one tricky thing that I see that happens as well. Coaches who come into the game, they ask the question, who is in pain or who is in suffering? Because they're thinking from the perspective of, if there's this big ass problem that I can go solve, making money will be easy, right? So we've had many people who are in the weight loss industry, right? Or coaches that help people lose weight. Or I was throwing my mom under the bus here. She wants to help people who have gone through this massive, massive trauma, right?

11:23 Because from her perspective, she's like, hey, I went through this big trauma. So I'm going to go launch a big trauma program because I can help people who had big trauma. Yeah. And then you fast forward three years later and all she's talking to is people who had this big ass trauma. And now she is like pigeonholed in a depressing day. And she's like, well, yeah, I have a skill set. But holy crap, my conversations 40 hours a week are not very enjoyable. How do I dig out? Suck fest. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Totally. Such a great point. Such a great point. So guys, look, here's the deal with regard to your program. You should outline your program. You should know where you intend to take people. You should spend the time at bare minimum. You don't need to have every single little piece perfected.

12:07 All you need is to know how long is it going to be? What is the outcome? What is your process for getting people from point A to point B? And basically, you need a bullet point outline of how it's going to roll. And then you need to have day one or week one ready to go. That's what you need. Can I put a cherry on top of this first one? Hit it. I want to highlight this. And if anyone's listening, if you need to pull over and grab your pen and paper, just grab this one nugget. This will summarize it. Focus on transformation when you're crafting your program. And don't get hung up in the information, super highway, fire hose. I'm going to throw everything in the kitchen sink into my program.

12:48 I cannot tell you how many people we've looked at where they go, here's my program outline. And it's like, you literally put a PhD's worth of content into a 12 week or an eight week course. Like there's no way you're going to be able to get this thing off the ground because, and moreover, your clients are going to come in and they're going to go, there's no way I can do this. That's such a great point, dude. That's such a great point. And I'm going to one up you here. I'm going to put a cherry on top of your cherry on top of the Sunday, which is double stamp. And my triple. I am. I'm double stamping your triple stamp. So one last thing with regard to getting ready to get ready that we see all the time, not just the program perfection, but I've got to have all the whiz bang stuff that I see all the big boys playing with.

13:34 Don't do that. Guys, I'm going to, All you need to deliver your program really is you and like Google Drive. You can live with that. And quite frankly, I'll be honest with you. Some of the best programs that I've ever been through were delivered through like it was like the coach and some voice notes and shit. That was it. Don't get hung up on like, oh my God, I got to have like this enormous CRM and I got to have like a, you know, super professional membership site and I got to have an app. And before you know it, you got to have 64 tools to deliver your program. That's yet another thing that's just getting ready to get ready. We looked at an $80 million a year coaching business.

14:15 That was probably about two weeks ago. The entire program was Google Docs and a Zoom recording. And their front end of their house was literally a simple four or five page website. Yep. Yep. So, all right. Number two, this is a really important one. Building your business around a tactic. Yeah. So I want to lead into this one by telling just a really short story. When I got back into health and fitness and kind of got into coaching, I took clients in person. I had a studio that I built in my house and I took clients in person. And after a while, you know, I had been so used to in my previous life and my previous business, so used to coming and going the way that I wanted to.

14:57 It was like hell on earth to have a bunch of clients in person because I couldn't go anywhere. I couldn't do anything. It was terrible. Yeah. And so that was really what started my journey into, okay, how do I figure out how to do this online? And of course, like pretty much every other coach, the first thing that I ran into was how the hell do I get clients? And I did what most other coaches do because by the way, you guys, I don't care what your certification is. Whatever they taught you about quote unquote marketing is bullshit and it doesn't work. Yeah. Coaching certifications are really good at certifying people and they're very good at what they teach.

15:38 They are not good at helping you build a business or teaching you how to be an effective marketer or any of that crap. So one of the biggest mistakes that I made, I got to a point where I was like, my God, I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to figure out, do I do organic? Do I try to run Facebook ads? I tried all the things. It wasn't working. And I was getting desperate, which isn't a good place to be making decisions from, by the way. In that desperation, I need something to get me clients and I need them right now. So what I did is I went and I signed up for a program that would get me clients. What I didn't know because I literally, it's like I had lost my mind. I was inside a very successful business for nearly 15 years that I helped build.

16:21 And it was like I lost my mind and forgot all of the things that I knew about how to build a successful business. And I was just like, my God, I just need clients so I can put money in my pocket. And what I did is exactly what I'm going to caution all of you against doing right now, which is that I went after a tactic that... It wasn't even a full-blown marketing strategy. It was just a tactic that was going to land clients on my door. And I built my whole business around that tactic. And in the long run, where it landed me was in a spot where did I get some clients? Yes, I did. And there were certain parts of that that were very helpful.

17:03 The problem was that tactic never worked as well as it was supposed to work for me. And within relatively short order, I had literally burned through on this one attempted solution to my client problem. I had burned through over $100,000. And that was just in the cost to run this stuff. That wasn't even including my ad spend. And I got myself to a point where it was so financially... unfeasible for me to keep going that I had to put everything on hold. Now, in the long run, that became a blessing in disguise. But I'll be honest, for most people, it isn't.

17:43 For most people, when that happens, they end up having to go back to J-O-B. Or, you know, shutting down their coaching business and just deciding that they're doomed to failure. And I tell that story because it's a cautionary tale. And my mistake was not trying something, by the way. You should do that. My mistake was not getting mentorship or it wasn't signing up for a program. That wasn't the mistake. The mistake wasn't doing paid ads. I love paid ads. I think they're great. The mistake was falsely believing that a tactic was what made up my business. And that torpedoed everything for me. And yeah, so that's my story on it, bro.

18:25 And I know you and I together have heard exactly the same story from so many other people, but... Tell me a little bit about your experience with this and why you want to caution people against going down that road. It's interesting. When I launched my coaching business, it was a little bit of a slightly different approach. And I also, I built it on a tactic and it had a little bit more strategy in there. When I launched my first coaching business, I was 23 years old. I had been working for the three years prior for the largest coaching company on earth. It was in the real estate space. We had like 350 coaches on staff. They brought in a new manager. I thought I was hot shit. Then I wanted to admit they brought in a new manager, him and I butted heads and voila, I found myself as a free agent.

19:10 And the next day, and I was fortunate because I had a mentor that was there that helped pull my head out of my rear, but I didn't have a coaching certification. I didn't have this book of clientele or this database, or I had no money that I could do for ad spend. I was in a pickle in the sense that I understood the referral marketing tactics because that was where I was working at prior. I had a master's degree in how to generate referrals at that point. And so I just took to the streets and I went and started generating referrals. Now, there was a yin and yang with that. The one piece, which was fantastic, was I actually got clients pretty dang fast, right? The downside was I maxed out on how many clients I could work with pretty dang fast.

19:53 And then I was pigeonholed on my pricing and how much I could earn. But here's the other part. I didn't have any other marketing strategies in play. So I was a one trick pony. I built my house, you know, on sand, so to speak. And when I didn't have business and when I wasn't getting referrals, I had nothing else that I could turn to to help grow my business. Yeah. It bit me in the rear because I'm like, okay, it's cool that I didn't have this huge expense to go get clients. And it was cool that I had clients that were there, but I capped out very, very quick. And then I was, I hate to say I was a slave, but I was a slave to the business that I created because I wasn't looking at a full blown strategy. I wasn't building a business at that point. I was just trying to get clients similarly.

20:33 And so I went down one road. It worked out for me, but it also handcuffed me to fulfill. Well, and so what I love about what you just said is that it isn't about, take this, you guys, this is not about what tactic. It's about the mistake of being a one-legged stool. That's really the problem at the end of the day is being the one-legged stool. And I think what I will say is that when it comes to marketing, you do have to start in one place, by the way. Like the best of the best will tell you like, okay, if you're just starting, go find one channel, find one way of marketing and do it. The problem is when coaches are looking around going, shit, whatever I'm trying isn't working and I need someone to help me with my marketing.

21:18 Guess what they're going to tell you? There's one way to do it. It's only this way. I know everybody else is a fucking idiot. You know, there's only one way. Yeah. There's only one way to do this. It's easy. And by the way, you should never market any other way. What's hilarious about that is that those types of offers, first of all, they're frigging everywhere. When it comes to marketing offers for coaches, like you just walk outside, walk down the street and 15 of those fuckers are going to fall out of a tree on your head. They're everywhere. And we get inundated by them all the time. And here's the thing. If you're a coach and you don't have as many clients as you want, of course, you're going to click. Like, why wouldn't you?

21:59 You know, especially if you don't have income coming from somewhere else. Here's the problem. Even if you go, let's say you go sign up for something that gets you some clients like Bravo. Cool. That's great. And by the way, I also want to be really clear. There are some really, really skilled companies and talented people out there who have perfected a tactic that is working right now. And I love that. you know, great problem that what they will tell you is that it's that way. It's the only way. And if you do it another way, you're an idiot. And that's exactly how you crash and burn your business. Ultimately it's yes. Start with one, get it rocking.

22:40 And then you've got to actually build a strategy around that. And in addition to that, this is not just a marketing conversation. We'll get to this in a minute. I don't want to go too far down the road, but yeah, You know, you've got to have the fundamentals of business. In addition to that, it can't just be about how am I getting clients because you'll fall flat on your face that way too. I'd love to add just one little, throw a little caution to the wind. So for anyone who's listening, that is perhaps you don't have a huge background in marketing and perhaps you, you've spent your life in a particular role where you built a skillset and now you have, you know, you have this desire to serve and help other people and you're building your coaching business when it comes to marketing.

23:21 And this is just, we were talking about this yesterday, right? When you look at the world of business, it's pretty simple. There's only a couple of chunks, what we would call pillars in your business. You have marketing, you have sales, you have fulfillment. Yeah. You have admin and you have ultimately, as you start to scale, you have leadership. I just want to put a bright light on this. The easiest piece of delivering your business as a coach, when we look at those five pillars, at the end of the day, it's going to be fulfillment. Maybe it's going to be admin because you can outsource that for lower costs. The most challenging, the most difficult, the hardest part of your business is going to be lead generation, right? And so why I want to put a light on this, if that's not your superpower, your skillset, there is going to be an element of you don't know what you don't know.

24:09 And what I'll also tell you is there's a lot of people in that part of the business sector that's... that are taking advantage of others because they're taking advantage of your naivete. Anyone just as a business principle, if that's not your driving skillset, if you don't know all the languaging around marketing, I want to throw this caution out to you. If you're interviewing somebody who does have a tactic or a strategy, or if you're interviewing a marketing agency, or if you're working with somebody who's making the claim, they're going to help you get leads. Here's what I'm going to throw out as a filter to help support. Did they build their credibility and their expertise two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, six, seven, eight, nine years ago?

24:53 And why I'm throwing this out as a caution. If that's when they made all their successes, what? What worked then is a completely different landscape of where the world is at now. And all the things that they might have been successful with back then, it doesn't play that way any longer. So why I'm throwing this out, if you're interviewing or you're working with somebody in the marketing sector, and I agree with you, Rye, there's some amazing people that are out there right now that are getting some amazing results. Check two things. So what worked five years ago worked for everybody. Today, what might work for one person may not work for your offer or for your niche or for your clientele or for your model. So check in with them, but don't just check in with what they're doing.

25:34 Check in with their clients and the results they're getting And is their model or is their offering similar to yours? So you can start to see, will this work in your marketplace with your niche clients in your way? This is very wise. I think it's really important to have some factors that you're looking at when you're kind of deciding whether or not to work with somebody from a marketing standpoint. Yeah. And I would just add to that as well. I was having a conversation with somebody the other day who's a really, really great marketer. And one of the things that they said to me, which rings so true because I believe exactly the same, is, Ryan, the one funnel approach is dead. If that's how you're building your business today, you are screwed, no matter what direction you're going.

26:16 And so the other thing that I would say is that if you decide to sign up for a program or hire somebody who has a one legged stool as their tactic, so be it. But here's the thing you need to have in the back of your mind. OK, I'm going to do this. I'm going to try to build it as my first way. of getting leads. And then I know I have to pivot or I've got to hire somebody to help me pivot or go work with somebody who will help you build out a more holistic, you know, actual marketing strategy that employs multiple tactics. That's another great way to win. So spot on. Number three, pricing. This is a fun one, man.

26:56 I know you've got so many stories around this. I would kick us off with pricing. I see three things that happen within pricing that what I'll just call the kiss of death. The first is people who get into coaching and they're, you know, we talked about imposters or they have a feeling of being insecure or they're not good enough or they're not ready or whatever the fear point might be there. And so they'll come into it and they'll do one of two things. One is they'll go into the, I'm just going to charge a really, really small amount just so I can get my feet wet and start. which they very quickly become resentful because they're like, holy crap, I'm doing this much time. I'm putting this much energy into it and I'm only making this. And then they start to resent their client and then things implode. The other part of that on the low end of the spectrum in terms of pricing is the trade.

27:40 I'm going to trade my services. So, oh, you want to be coached? Like I'm going to practice on you with the most important thing in your life, which is your psychology. I'm going to get my feet wet and then we'll trade services at some level. And what I can tell you is if you've ever done a school project and you've got two or three people that are there and everyone's like, oh, we're going to contribute equally. You and I both know it's never equal. It's usually you doing all the work and everybody else gets to poach off of the grade that you get. And then you're sitting there pissed off that you did all the heavy lift. So trade, the only time I recommend people do trade, by the way, is if you have a promoter. Right. So if you've got somebody who is networked to the gills and they want to promote the heck out of you and they just love talking about what you do, those are the trade options that tend to be a really good win win.

28:30 Outside of that, I usually tell people steer clear because you won't have skin in the game. Now we go to the other end of the spectrum and we see people whose egos are so dang big that they price themselves completely out of the marketplace and they can't figure out why people never buy their product. There has to definitely be this delicate balance of like the product and service that you're bringing, the quality of results that you can help people achieve, what the marketplace is charging, and then the quality of experience that you're bringing. So it's got to be in that delicate balance. At least that's just my two cents. How about you, brother? I totally agree. And I would say that it also depends on the way that you're delivering your product or service. If you are 100%, if you're delivering it by the vehicle of a course, and there's absolutely no one on one, there's absolutely no group coaching involved, it's pretty much just a digital product.

29:21 Obviously, your pricing has got to be different. On the flip side of that, if the majority of what you do involves a lot of you, your pricing needs to be different. If you have other people involved in your offer for whatever reason, like if you're doing health and fitness and like you're a fitness instructor, but you've got a nutritionist that's involved, you got to factor that into your pricing. I would say that there is no like absolute perfect answer, but the couple of things that I would throw out as tenants, and I'll also, I love this because I get to share again more things that were big mistakes that I made that I'd love other people not to make. You know, one of the things that I did initially when I was first coaching, because I was taking clients in person, I came from traditional personal training, which is a model that says like, OK, this is how much it costs for a session.

30:12 And oh, by the way, if you buy 10 of these from me, I'm going to give you this big discount. Right. Which means that for some reason, apparently, if you buy 10 sessions from me, my time is worth less than it is if you buy 10 sessions. It's also often predicated on a, it's like a dollar amount per hour spent. That's the whole model. And that was at the beginning of my business, you know, when I was doing this 100% of my own, that made things very, very difficult. Because anytime I wanted to raise my prices, and at that time, I was used to a certain lifestyle, I had made a lot of money. And I wanted to be able to maintain my lifestyle. So at first, I'm like, oh, I got to get started.

30:54 And I listened to all of the people around me, which is another big mistake. For God's sake, don't do that. Do not go and talk to your family about how much they think you should charge for your shit. Bad idea. But I listened to all the people in my life, you know, who were like, oh, yeah, you know what? You know, you're just kind of coming back into this. So don't charge too much because you don't want to like come off as an expert. But that's what I did, of course. In addition to that, I took it one step further. And I was like, oh, okay. You know what? Maybe I'll do this Groupon thing. That'd be a good idea. Oh, my God. If you have any kind of a brick and mortar coaching business or studio or anything, for love of God, please don't go do Groupon.

31:36 Bad, bad, bad idea. Because guess what happens when your people who are done with their frigging Groupon? Guess what happens when you want to charge them the normal price? It doesn't work out very well. I had to make a big shift to get myself out of that paradigm. And in addition to that, I've been in positions before where people told me, look, you can go charge, you know, 10 grand for this thing. And it doesn't matter. I don't care what your industry is. It doesn't make any difference. You know, you don't have to worry about the marketplace and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, look, I am of the opinion at this point, knowing better, that that is total bullshit. Every industry is a little bit different. It just is. And I've seen that because I have worked with now thousands of coaches in so many different industries.

32:21 And quite frankly, to say that they're all the same is just ridiculous. The people that are buying your stuff are different. The solution that you're providing is different. What people will pay for that solution is different. Right. It can run the gamut. So I think what you said, Brooke, is really important. And I would just also say that, you know, you need to be charging something that people cringe a little bit when they look at that bill if they're not doing shit. They have to. They got to have some skin in the game or they're not going to do it. Either that or if you want to play the volume game, you've got to be an incredible marketer. I mean, incredible marketer in order for it to work financially. The number one mistake that we see with pricing, just because I think if anyone who's listening and they go, uh-oh, if they're pucker up when I say what I'm about to say, this is your call to take some action on this one.

33:13 But the number one mistake that I've seen over the course of time, and Ry, tell me if I'm crazy on this one, is when people, or specifically when coaches put their pricing on their website. If you're putting, here's how many sessions you get, here's how much I charge. It's the kiss of death because you're putting pricing out there without context and without an association to a result. And you're leaving it up to your prospective buyer to go, how much do I want to spend per hour of your time? And why only make this much per hour? And well, they're going to make assumptions without having all the details in the pieces that they can't connect the dots. But Brooke, I want to be transparent. I want to be transparent. I don't want to feel salesy and I want to just put it out there so people know.

33:56 But Ryan, but if they see my prices in the beginning, then I won't get objections at the end about what my price is. That's because you'll never get on the frigging phone. I will couple this. If you have a digital product that you're selling, it's this, you buy this thing, you get into this, this deal and you don't have to have any interaction. That's a different type of an offering. But if you're selling coaching 100% of the time, I will put my neck out on the line on this. Do not put your pricing on your website is a moot point. It has nothing to do with the outcome. And if you've got pricing on your website right now, pull over, pull it off your website right here, right now. I'm in total agreement.

34:36 So the other one big thing I'll also share is within the sales context of pricing, if you share what your price is and you hook it. So just basically compartmentalizing something Ryan just mentioned. If you go, here's my price, here's how many sessions you get with me. Do not sell your price and then back it right up with how many sessions they get. They're going to do quick math to figure out what your rate is for the amount of time you give. You give, here's the outcome you have. Here's how much I charge to help you get there. Yeah. I love that you just said that because I will say that was a big shift for me early on. And with all the struggles that I went through, I do feel really, really fortunate that I had some mentors and coaches at that time that advised me to price my services based on the outcome, not how much time it took.

35:24 That changed so much for me. And I'm so grateful to those people for helping me with that because my goodness, that's a paradigm that you just don't want to get stuck in. And to be honest, the other part of it is that this becomes not just about pricing, but it also becomes about the time that's involved and the perception that if either A, you spend more time with them or B, there's like a longer timeframe involved, that that is in some way, shape or form more valuable. Right. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think that if we base it on the outcome, then we can get really focused on delivering that. And that's what the client is looking for.

36:06 If you do it the other way around, guess what's going to happen? People are going to be looking at those sessions and they're going to be weighting the value of those sessions. Let's just say, what if you got them the outcome faster than they thought? They're still going to come calling for those four frigging sessions that you haven't delivered on yet, even though you already got them the outcome. So it's a great point, dude. And that was a big part, you know, in shifting my journey and coaching for sure. I think it goes right back to the focus on transformation. How can you get them to the outcome in the fastest way possible with the least amount of effort versus here's the kitchen sink and you're going to get me for 15 hours a week and I'm going to be there living in your kitchen and like, no, get out of that.

36:46 They will pay more to get there faster versus you thinking you've got to give all this much more. Like, trust me, you've got to give value. People want to do less to get to the destination. They don't want to have to go do. Do they want to scale Mount Everest like a cliff face or would they rather have a Sherpa take them straight to the top and see the view and get down safely? So 100 percent. Before we leave this, I want to give people just a little bit of actionable intel on pricing without going too far down the rabbit hole because we don't have time for that. But yeah. Number one, if you're literally just starting right now, my first piece of advice with regard to pricing is go find a couple of people. First of all, find a price that would feel really good to you.

37:27 It's got to like genuinely feel really good. Not like, oh, you know, this is what I think I could get. Like I would feel really good if somebody paid me X in order to do Y in this amount of time. Okay. And start with that. And then with your first couple of clients, so that you can get some testimonials and things of that nature, Let them have it for 50% off in exchange for a guaranteed testimonial. They promise to do the work. They promise to stay in for the designated amount of time to show up, do all the things. And they promise to give you a testimonial at the end. And you let them have it for 50%. It's going to feel good for you.

38:07 The amount that you'll, quote unquote, lose in revenue is going to be well worth it with the testimonials that you're going to get that you can then use as promotional material on the other end. And it's going to feel really good to them as well. Not to mention the fact that you let them in for 50% and then you rock their world. They will be referral machines for you going forward. So I would just give a little bit of that. Any small nuggets that you would want to give, Brooke, on pricing beyond that to start? I love the fact that the pricing for your first initial group, if you do want to give them a discount. So just remember, anytime you're negotiating, you know, an enrollment, and this is we should make this a whole nother. This could be a whole series of episodes, but you either negotiate on price or terms.

38:51 So if you're going to reduce your price, you increase the terms. So, hey, I'm going to reduce my price for you. I would love as a result, I'm going to request a testimonial. I'm going to want feedback. I'm going to want to do a case study with you. I'm going to want to like get something in exchange for that reduction. So I think that was a really great actionable piece there, brother. Love that. Cool. All right. We just kind of touched on sales. So let's dig into that. Mistake number four is winging it with your sales. So oftentimes people spend so much time baking out the program and figuring out what it's going to be and who they're going to serve and how they're going to do it and all the things that they're going to do it.

39:32 that they don't have a process to their sales. They don't have like a clear structure to their sales. And oftentimes they feel like I'm a coach or I have this expertise and I'm not a salesperson. And so I suck. And this is obviously a really big one, guys, because look, you can have the best program on the face of the earth, but if you can't sell it, it doesn't matter. Right? Right. So, you know, it's kind of like the musician that nobody ever hears. So let's dive in on this, man. We might have people want to drive off the side of the road with what we're about to say. So here's the first part. If you are in that seat right now saying, I am not a salesperson.

40:12 I don't ever want to be a salesperson. I hate sales. Sales is a four-letter word. I had all these bad sales experiences. If that's where your headspace is at right now and you're in business for yourself, You have a really, really big mountain to climb. I'm just going to call it out. You have to work through your fears or your identity as it pertains to that first and foremost. So here's how this looks for people who got in the game of coaching. They go up. I'm not going to do a sales call. I'm just going to have a conversation with somebody. They're going to love what I do so much. They're going to throw their wallet at me and they're going to enroll. Right? You are screwed if that's where you're coming into this thing. And here's why.

40:53 Human beings make decisions. We have psychology that drives our behavior. And so what I'll tell you is this. This might come across as a very weird sentiment. The mass majority of people that we've worked with, they actually have the right ingredients to do an enrollment. But they've got a jacked up sequence in their recipe. So what that looks like is somebody is going to get into the game of selling their services and they go, cool, I'm going to make a cake. I've got the flour. I've got the frosting. I got the whipped cream or whatever the heck you put at the end. The frosting. Yeah, the frosting. Frosting and whipped cream. Diabetes, apparently. You've got sprinkles. You've got the eggs. You've got the oven. You have all the pieces.

41:33 All the ingredients are laid out on your counter. But if you switch the flour and the frosting, you're going to jack up the result. So you might have the right ingredients, but if you have the wrong sequence and recipe, you're not going to enroll people in your coaching program because you're going to do things bass-ackwards, or you're going to break some of the cardinal rules of psychology and that will trigger people to not buy from you. It's not about getting people to purchase what you have. It's actually more about helping people avoid not purchasing. My double negative for the day. Here's the deal, guys. The truth is that so many people do this. Here's what I want to touch on. I love what you just said. And I would say that when you're selling people away from your product or service, more often than not, you're vomiting at the mouth about how amazing your stuff is or you're going into every little nitty gritty detail.

42:27 Right. of your program and how awesome it is. And by the way, people do this from, it's not, they don't do it to be assholes. They do it. I know because they're coming from a good place. They think they're informing somebody or they're just super excited. We see this all the time. You guys, where you're really proud of what you've built and what you've baked out and you're excited to tell somebody about it. And then all of a sudden, before you know, you're midway through Othello explaining your fricking program, right? Yeah. It's true. And I think more often than not, what happens in a lot of cases is that sometimes people at the beginning, the kiss of death when somebody starts a coaching business is getting a couple of people to say yes at the beginning.

43:10 Now, right now you're thinking, wait a minute, why is that the kiss of death? That's a good thing. Yes and no, because what ends up happening more often than not is when you've got a shitty sales process through no fault of your own, by the way, if you're not a sales expert, how the heck could you possibly be expected to come up with an incredible sales process? But if you have a shitty sales process and you get a couple of enrollments right out of the gate. you're freaking Johnny closer all of a sudden. It's like, oh man, I got this. Easy peasy, baby. And then you go 0 for 100 and you're not feeling so hot. By the way, those of you that are not yet 0 for 100, both Brooke and I have coached more than one person who has been that far and even worse than that.

43:57 So don't quit. Just go get a better sales process. Let close everyone. More information is not going to help somebody make a move forward. More feeling, more emotion or the right feelings and the right emotion. If you're sitting there going, I have no idea. I don't have a structure. Oh, by the way, we can help you there, as Ryan just mentioned. But the big piece, don't hit people with more information. Just like we said, don't give people more content, pump more into the fire hose of your world. really focus on how am I making people feel? What are they feeling now? Do I understand how they feel? What are the feelings they want to feel? And at the end of the day, if they were to accomplish these things, what would that feel like? And here's the key piece, because Ryan said it in there, but I just want to make sure people grab it.

44:39 You are not the hero. Make them the hero by working with you. Be their guide. Don't go into the space of, you have this problem. I am your savior that you've been looking for. Right? No. Be excited about, oh my gosh, I am so excited that I'll be able to go on this journey with you and get you there. That was very like Bruce Almighty moment. I just watched that a couple of weeks ago with my girls. Oh my gosh. For the first time in so many years. Smite me, almighty smiter. And we're Jennifer Aniston pulling in the moon. That's so good. Oh man.

45:19 And we're off track again. Yeah. The number five and final mistake and perhaps sort of the underlying bedrock to all of this is most coaches start their business as a coach and not a business owner. Right now, you might be thinking, Ryan, what the hell are you talking about? Well, here's the deal. As soon as you decide that you are going to take money for your services and somebody is paying you directly, and I don't mean you're working for somebody else as a coach. I mean, you have your own coaching business, even if it's a side hustle, whatever it is. You are now a company of one. You are a business owner now.

46:01 And one of the biggest mistakes that we watch people make is they just think of themselves. This is twofold. This is both on a tactical level. They think of themselves as a coach and not a business owner. And so they don't bother learning how to be a business owner, putting in place the systems and structures that you really need at the end of the day. And they think of themselves as a coach and not a business owner. You know I'm obsessed with the idea of identity, bro. Tell them why that's a mistake. We've actually seen it get lopsided in both directions. You have a coach who comes in, they go, I'm a coach, I'm a coach, I'm a coach, I'm a coach. Like we were talking about before, our five pillars, right? They then don't go market or they don't go generate leads or they'll get stuck in the tactics.

46:46 Or they go, I'm a coach, I'm a coach, I'm a coach. I'm not a salesperson. I'm not going to sell. Cool. Now you have no paying people for your revenue. Good luck. Then they go, I'm a coach, I'm a coach, I'm a coach. They do really, really good in their coaching, but then they don't manage their business and they don't fulfill on the other pieces outside of a coaching session by itself. Okay, so that's kind of path number one if they go down the full identity of I'm a coach and I'm only a coach. Now let's hop, skip, jump over to the other side of the equation, which is I'm a business owner only. We've seen this happen quite a few times where you get somebody who's a business owner only and they'll actually have really good marketing and they'll have really good sales. And then people come into their organization and it falls apart because they have nothing that's there with any potatoes to fulfill.

47:28 And then they're scrambling trying to figure out how can I find somebody else to deliver on all these promises I made. Then they get into trouble with the FTC. We've never seen that happen. Then they get in trouble with their clients wanting to do a class action lawsuit. Or then they get in trouble and their business partners walk out on them. And then they're stuck with not being able to fulfill on all this stuff that's there that they promise. So just in my opinion, the two identities have to have a baby. Yes. Amen. And so you've got to have this delicate balance of being... You need to be somebody who can stand in authenticity and stand in integrity, knowing that you can help people get the outcome. But holy hell, you've got to build up that muscle as a business owner.

48:08 And if you don't have the environment and the proximity and the strategies and the identity to make that real, find an ecosystem where you can get that. Amen. And I also want to say, you know, we talked on a previous episode about kind of the fact that, look, not everybody is built to be a business owner and an entrepreneur. And here's one thing right now, if you're listening to this right now and you're thinking to yourself, yeah, but I don't want to do all the shit that comes along with being a business owner. For God's sake, yeah, like go work for somebody else. Truly, you will go bless somebody else and their business. And there is nothing wrong with it. There's nothing you should feel guilty about. But if you are not willing to do what it takes, please don't open your own business.

48:52 And you know what's so interesting about this is that, you know, Brooke and I both know a couple of people who are phenomenal, phenomenal coaches. Yeah. that in certain circumstances, I don't even want to open my own business because I don't want to mess with that shit. Very smart. And we've also seen people who have said that, acknowledged it, and then decided, oh, you know what? I can go do my own thing. And now they're in a shit storm because guess what? They haven't really changed. They don't really want to do the things. They don't know how to do the things. And that's a major problem. You know, one thing that I heard recently, I'm ticked that I can't remember exactly who said it, but I was listening to a podcast and a discussion actually was around the...

49:33 business and entrepreneurship. And what the person said was, your craft will only get you so far. And whoa, guys, that's a hammer if ever there was one. Because look, if you are a really good coach, or if you have an expertise and you've decided to turn it into coaching, or regardless of where you get your confidence from... You can be incredible at what you do, but Brooke and I know tons of coaches that are insanely good at what they do and their business is shit. And it sucks because when your business sucks and you can't run it, You can't serve the people that really need you.

50:15 You can't wake up every day and focus on the things that you really love to focus on because you're stuck in this messy freaking business that isn't working. Right. It really is. It's a hellish place. And it's not a place that anybody who actually wants to and is willing to put up with the things that you have to put up with to be a business owner and entrepreneur is. You shouldn't have to be in that place because it's a detriment to you. It's a detriment to the people that you should be serving. And it's a hamster wheel, to be honest. There's a big tell as it pertains to this. So if you're in a coaching business where this shows up is where you go, Ooh, I need a website. Okay, cool.

50:55 I'm going to go learn how to do web design. I'm going to go figure out how to build out an entire website. I'm going to go create my own logos. I'm going to go figure out how to do code so that you can get your website done. Then you go, okay, cool. I need a CRM. Cool. I'm going to go get a certification on CRMs and how to do automations. And I'm going to go figure out how to do that. And then customer service. Yeah, I'm going to go. So where this shows up a lot is if you're in your business and you are spinning every plate under the sun, you're playing as a coach. Business owners don't think that way. Business owners go, we have an outcome. We have numbers we need to hit. We have people we need to serve and a problem we solve. Who is in the ecosphere that can do certain things that I'm not an expert in so that we can move faster, so that we can get to people quicker, so that we can get to market faster, so we can generate revenue, so we can scale a business.

51:44 So if you've been doing those things, there's no shame in that. However, I just want to throw caution to the wind. If you haven't been getting your business off the ground because you're trying to figure out how to build a freaking website or because you're trying to get another certification, like stop that madness. Like business owners look for ways of where can I make investments into my business so that I can get things cooking? That's exactly right. And I will say this. I do think, you know, one of the things that my dad said to me, you know, many years ago, and he's been an entrepreneur for my entire life, is he said, Ryan, you don't have to be the expert at every area of your business, but you damn well better at least understand it enough to know what you're looking for and getting the right person to put in that seat and enough to know when and if you're getting taken advantage of.

52:34 And I will say that somebody is listening to this right now and they're going, well, that's lovely guys, but I don't have any money. I can't go out and hire all these experts. I have to do a lot of these things on my own. Here's the deal. Look, at the beginning, there are, of course, things that you're going to have to do on your own. But where I think Brooke's point is so valid is that having to do things on your own at first and thinking you've got to all of a sudden go out and be an expert in those things are two totally different ballgames. Okay. And it goes back to earlier in the conversation when we said, look, if you got to build a program, just start with simplicity. Okay. You don't need all the things. Listen, I know tons of coaches that have done six and sometimes even seven figures without a website.

53:17 Now, is that exactly what I recommend? No, but it proves the point that it can be done, right? They focus on the things that were important right out of the gate. And so, you know, the other piece that I want to mention here is that I don't want to be nebulous on what you know, or to understand what it takes to be a business owner. First things first, getting back to the conversation about getting ready to get ready. Guys, please don't go off and think that you got to take six months or a year to figure out how to be a business owner to start. You don't, you don't. And please, whatever you go off and do, by the way, you'll actually get into business. You'll get kicked in the teeth and you'll be like, shit, They didn't tell me that was going to happen.

54:01 So the point is, it's not about knowing all of it before you begin. It's about starting with the mindset that I am a business owner and I need to know and understand how to run a business in order to be successful. And that means things like having systems and structures and processes and SOPs and understanding business planning and knowing how to read a P&L. you know, understanding accounting and all of those things eventually come into play. You don't have to know them all at once, but what you do have to do is you've got to decide that you're going to take on that identity. You have to take on that identity and you have to marry it like Brooke said so wisely.

54:44 with your coach identity. And that's the person that's going to drive the show. And then as you go, you learn more. You get the right mentors. You focus in one area for a little bit. You learn a little bit there. You focus in another area. You learn more there. You get more mentors. You learn more things. You get kicked in the teeth some more. Yeah. And then you figure more out, you know, but it's an evolutionary process. The big key, though, is clearly claiming the identity at the start. It's so well said, and it's a great way for us to cap this episode. You know, when we worked with Tony Robbins, there's something that he said every time we got into a business owner dialogue. Yeah. He would use this framework, which was business as a sport for gladiators, right?

55:26 So you want to be a business owner. Most people get into it because they're like, oh, I want to have my own business. I want to do this thing. I want to help people and I want to make money. I want to be my own boss. I don't want anyone to tell me what to do. And then you get into the arena and there's lions and there's people trying to kill you and there's people trying to take you out. And then there's the government that's holding the arena. And you didn't realize that they put a 30% tax on top of your ticket to get in there in the first place. Yeah. And so there's this dynamic of, yes, be a coach. Yes, be a business owner. But truly take the identity of being a gladiator, knowing that you're going to be in there fighting for other people's lives, fighting for your own life. To your point, it's very well said. You're going to get kicked in the teeth.

56:06 And at the end of the day, you've got to make that commitment to survive and to thrive. Amen. Amen. Oh, bro. This was so good. I'm so glad we did this. And listen, if you're listening to this right now, my hope is that you will go back through this episode, take copious notes and listen, some of you are listening to this right now and you haven't started yet. You're still thinking about it. And you're going to be in a spot where like, you can avoid all these things right now. Some of you have already gotten a certain amount of the way down the road and you're thinking to yourself, oh, shit, I did that. Listen, guess what? It's OK, by the way. It's OK if you've already made some of these mistakes.

56:46 It's OK if you've already made all of them. And here's the truth. It's absolutely okay if you've made all of them and you've even gotten yourself to a point where you had to go back and get the J-O-B. Well, guess what? Now you know better and you can put yourself in a position to win right out of the gate if you go back and correct these five mistakes. So, brother, this was awesome as always. Thank you for incredible, incredible insights today. I know how helpful this is going to be. There's so much gold in this one. I'm excited. I'm excited to go back and listen to this one. Likewise. Yeah, I need to go back and listen to this as a CEO. What's my recipe for that dang cake? frosting and whipped cream frosting and whipped cream yeah you're in a diabetic with double cherries that's awesome oh man well listen guys thank you so much for listening to this episode of the coaching equation podcast we are excited every week to bring these episodes to you guys we would be so grateful if you would take the time to share it out with somebody who you think would really enjoy it or get a lot out of it and until next time thanks brother we'll Thank you for listening to this episode of The Coaching Equation.

57:56 Please hit subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you got value out of this episode, we would be so grateful if you would share it out with a friend and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite platform. To learn more about Empire Partners or to inquire about working with Ryan and Brooke, please visit www.empirepartners.io forward slash go.